How JustAnswer Works:

  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site.
    Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.

Ask Ash Your Own Question

Ash
Ash, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 10916
Experience:  Solicitor with 5+ years experience
75100385
Type Your Law Question Here...
Ash is online now

(English law) I have to go to a directions hearing to ask that

Customer Question

(English law) I have to go to a directions hearing to ask that an order be amended. The order is as plaintiff and settles a financial claim I made owed to me. I had no lawyer in court and didn't ask at the final hearing . The interest is significant because the money owed to me was from a few years ago.
The letter says it is the party's responsibility to provide the relevant law stating that the judge can change an order once sealed.
Also, going to court involves an overnight stay, can I ask on the same day?
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Ash replied 2 years ago.
Alex Watts :

my name is ***** ***** I will help you with this.

Alex Watts :

Yes if you attend the final hearing and the issue of interest is found in your favour you are entitled to claim:

Alex Watts :

1) £90 witness expenses

Alex Watts :

2) 45p a mile or train fare

Alex Watts :

3) Reasonable cost of hotel

Alex Watts :

Can I clarify anything about this today please?

Customer:

Yes please, can you help with the question about the amendment to the sealed order?

Customer:

I have to give the judge the relevant law which says she can change the sealed order (the change is on the years old sum owed)

Alex Watts :

If there has been an error then you need to apply to set aside or appeal the decision.

Alex Watts :

If there has been an error drawing up the order then you need to get a copy of the transcript of the hearing to see what was discussed and what the Judge intended.

Alex Watts :

But if its a clerical error it can simply be amended under Part 20 of the Civil Procedure Rules.

Alex Watts :

If the decision was wrong, then you have to appeal

Alex Watts :

Does that clarify?

Customer:

I am LIP and the issue of interest was raised by the judge at the final hearing. But what she said was unclear, because it was dismissive and rushed 'you are probably entitled to claim interest on the sum but it's probably not a significant amount'...

Alex Watts :

Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 sets out that you are entitled to 8%

Alex Watts :

But interest is a discretionary matter.

Customer:

yes, this was written on the original claim form

Alex Watts :

If you are entitled to more interest under contract, again this is discretion

Alex Watts :

Interest is a matter of discretion. If you disagree with the decision after a hearing then it should be an appael

Customer:

but what the judge said was just strange and didn't say one thing or the other, and then when she asked me my costs were she was rushing me

Alex Watts :

Ok - then you still need the transcript.

Alex Watts :

If the Judge ordered something different to that which was intended you need a transcript and apply to vary

Customer:

i don't think i can do/afford an appeal, which is more than bad because it's a significant sum

Customer:

the order is just on the paper which came through. I didn't know what it would say about interest because what the judge said in the hearing was so unclear and rushing me

Customer:

it didn't have interest, so i called and the office were asking me 'well what did the judge say in the hearing' and i said I didn't have exact words, but roughly what she said. Then one of them said that I should write to ask amendment

Alex Watts :

Might I suggest you get a transcript of the hearing then. Then you can see where you are.

Alex Watts :

But you cant ask if you didnt put it in the claim form.

Customer:

It was in the claim form, the original one, but the judge didn't seem to look at it or have it of the hearings

Customer:

I asked % from the date the money was owed. I thought the court would calculate this and didn't know if it was done automatically. THe judge was very rushed and kept shouting they had to get on. So when she said 'you are probably entitled to interest but it's insignificant really..' (trailed off) I didn't say anything

Alex Watts :

Ok. Then you need to get a transcript and see what was intended.

Alex Watts :

Its not automatic.

Alex Watts :

You have to ask . Even then then you are not automatically entitled to it. It is discretion

Customer:

Yes, I will get a transcript. From what I say though, how would I proceed when the transcript would read like that?

Alex Watts :

If the order is not what the Judge intended you apply to vary

Alex Watts :

If you simply disagree with the decision you can ONLY appeal

Customer:

could/should I ask the judge what she intended? The issue of interest had no input from me at all at the final hearing, it was just her saying 'probably you are entitled to interest but it's not significant'...

Alex Watts :

No, you can't ask. You need the transcript.

Alex Watts :

If the Judge said you are probably entitled to it, but not significant then it must be an appeal

Customer:

the transcript isn't goinmg to tell anything different to those words

Alex Watts :

If the Judge said I am giving you x interest and it wasnt recorded on the order then its application to vary

Alex Watts :

From the sound of it, its an appeal

Alex Watts :

you need the transcript anyway

Customer:

so can I clarify, you think that her saying 'it's not significant

Customer:

sorry, typing badly

Customer:

meant she didn't give me interest

Alex Watts :

Not signifcant is an appeal

Alex Watts :

Yes

Alex Watts :

So if you disagree with that, its an appeal

Customer:

because of the way she said it, I thought she was saying 'don't tell me, I'll decide, I'm thinking and I'll decide later'

Customer:

so annoying

Customer:

wrong dates

Customer:

lots of travel, and then shouted at in a rush

Alex Watts :

No. The Judge will always decide there and then

Alex Watts :

So you have to appeal

Alex Watts :

In any event you would only usually get around 2-3% given the base rate of 0.5% so you need to decide whether its worth an appeal

Alex Watts :

Can I clarify anything ?

Customer:

woldn't I be appealing 8% (which is about 3,000)

Alex Watts :

No, because its a matter of discretion. You wouldnt get 8%

Alex Watts :

You would get 2 or 3%

Alex Watts :

You dont get interest as of right

Customer:

the appeal is 8% I thought? If not, then it's not worth it. The judge just didn't seem to be up to date with any of the claim

Customer:

i have a date to go before the judge to ask if the order can be amended, so is that an appeal?

Alex Watts :

8% is a matter of discretion. You are not automatically entitled to it

Alex Watts :

Can't you see our chat about that above?

Customer:

if discretionary then why wouldn't I ask % as that is what I'm appealing for?

Customer:

I just didn't understand why it becomes 2-3%

Alex Watts :

Because interest and the rate is a matter of discretion of the Court.

Alex Watts :

Its not an automatic right %

Alex Watts :

You dont get it automatically.

Customer:

yes, I wondered why the 2-3%

Customer:

that was all

Alex Watts :

First the Court decides as a matter of discretion whether to award interest

Alex Watts :

Then the Court considers as a matter of discretion what rate to allow you

Customer:

yes

Alex Watts :

Because in my experience Courts generally only award at the moment between 2 and 3% given the Bank of England base rate is 0,5%

Customer:

so I thought it could be 8%, because if it's only 2-3 at an appeal then it's not worth it

Customer:

I have a court date, as in original question, and they say I have to state which law allows the judge to amend the order

Alex Watts :

Yes I would agree

Alex Watts :

Yes you can ask the Court to withdraw that application so you don't need to attend.

Customer:

that was why the asking re the *%

Customer:

8%

Alex Watts :

Yes

Customer:

sorry, I don't want to do that, because it's discretionary so could be 8%

Alex Watts :

Have I cleared that up now?

Customer:

the original question was about the law which states that the judge is allowed to amend the order (I have to provide this, so I think this must be an appeal)

Alex Watts :

Yes it must be an appeal

Alex Watts :

Does that clarify?

Customer:

no

Alex Watts :

What else would you like to know?

Customer:

just because the basis of the question is re what law states that the judge is permitted to amend the sealed order (I have to state this in person to the judge)

Alex Watts :

The Judge can amend the sealed or if the Judge made a mistake.

Alex Watts :

That is what the Judge meant was not reflected in the order

Alex Watts :

Then the law there is it can be amended under part 20 of the Civil Procedure Rules

Alex Watts :

But you dont want to do that. You are disagreeing with the decision. It is therefore an appeal

Alex Watts :

Does that clarify?

Customer:

Partly. Can you clarify that there are no other grounds ? The wording in the directions re this appeal are as in the original question: that I have to assist the judge and tell her what law applies. So I thought there was a law to cite. Is there any citation re a Judge making a mistake?

Customer:

It's just that I need to be clear before I attend the appeal, what am I saying. 'Judge please amend the order as is permitted under rule...'

Customer:

in the letter it says exactly: time estimate 1 hour (with 30 minutes allocated reading time prior to hearing)

Customer:

and 'It is the responsibility of the party seeking an amendment to the order to assist the judge with providing the relevant law which states that she is permitted to amend the order after it has been sealed'.

Alex Watts :

There are no other grounds of a appeal. The law is the Civil Procedure Rules Part 20

Alex Watts :

That is what I am saying, its under the Court Rules part 20

Alex Watts :

Does that help?

Customer:

Sorry, are you able comment re the quote from the court direction? 'It is the responsibility of the party seeking an amendment to the order to assist the judge with providing the relevant law which states that she is permitted to amend the order after it has been sealed'.

Customer:

is it saying it must be a clerical error? Otherwise there is no law/rule?

Alex Watts :

yes the party seeking to make an amendment must assist the Judge

Alex Watts :

It can only be a clerical error otherwise it is an appeal

Alex Watts :

I am sorry

Customer:

so if it is an 'amendment' does that mean not an appeal?

Alex Watts :

No.

Alex Watts :

If the Judge meant one thing but when the order was drawn, it was not clear or was lost in translation, that is an amendment

Alex Watts :

But if you simply disagree with what the Judge said, ie in terms of interest that is an appeal

Alex Watts :

The Judge did not seem to order interest.

Alex Watts :

That is what you dispute.

Alex Watts :

This is why you need a transcript of the hearing as I have previously suggested

Customer:

I don't live in england so having to travel to ask change to a clerical error. The office staff had said it would be possible to amend if I just wrote in, but now she's asking to attend

Alex Watts :

So you can see what was said and what the Judge meant to order

Alex Watts :

Without that transcription the Judge on reviewing the amendment can't say what the Judge meant

Alex Watts :

You need to attend because the other side may dispute what was said

Customer:

i have spoken on the phone quite a bit, and originally wrote 2 months ago, but they said they missed the first letter somehow, so i wrote again

Alex Watts :

Which is why you need a transcript.

Customer:

the reuest was to amend the order

Customer:

i know what is in the transcript

Alex Watts :

You need a transcript

Alex Watts :

But no-one else does

Alex Watts :

The Judge you back before wont

Customer:

the transcripts has the judge and myself doing as I said above

Alex Watts :

You have asked what you need to do. I have told you what you need to do

Alex Watts :

If its a clerical error then its amended under Part 20 of the rules

Alex Watts :

If it is not a clerical error then you need to appeal

Customer:

The original question relates to a qute from the letter. I asked if you think this is an appeal, or a clerical error. I don't know which it is, and the transcript says as I quoted above from memory, I remember leaving the court being unsure whether interest was given, as were the notetakers

Alex Watts :

I think it is an appeal

Alex Watts :

All Court hearings are taped so you need a transscript.

Alex Watts :

The Judge did not allow you interest

Alex Watts :

You disagree with that.

Alex Watts :

Therefore it is an appeal

Customer:

i just wonder if you can refer to the quote from the directions? If it's an appeal why is it asking me to state a law? (there is no law)

Alex Watts :

Because the people that draw up the orders are not lawyers, they are office staff

Alex Watts :

As I have mentioned it is contained within the Civil Procedure Rules re amendments to Court orders

Alex Watts :

But this is not an amendment

Alex Watts :

The Judge did not award interest, you dispute that

Alex Watts :

Therefore it is an appeal

Customer:

what goes in the orders I thought would all be directed from the judge, dictated or written, and thus asked because I thought this might be a common direction and make it clear whether it is an appeal or an amendment

Alex Watts :

Ok - I think you are getting a little confused

Alex Watts :

An amendment is where the Court staff got wrong what the Judge ordered

Customer:

as mentioned above, the letter I wrote to the judge (as suggested by the office staff) was requesting an amendment, not an appeal

Alex Watts :

An appeal is where you consider the Judges decision to be wrong

Customer:

then, after my letter was considered, I received this direction today

Alex Watts :

And your letter was considered by a Judge?

Customer:

sorry, I do understand that

Customer:

and the civil proc. re clerical errors

Customer:

yes, it was

Customer:

a qc

Customer:

i wrote twice because the office said the letter was missed the first time

Alex Watts :

If the Judge missed it then you still need the transcript.

Alex Watts :

Do you understand that whatever you do, you will need the transcript?

Alex Watts :

If you do not understand that please tell me

Customer:

the judge did get the letter, because I wrote again, and the directions state that 'upon receiving the letter from...[me] , and upon the judge being prepared to list the matter to decide whether interest can now be added to now that the order has been sealed' IT IS ORDERED THAT the matter be listed....hour...NOTE: It is the responsinility of the party seeking an amendment to the order to assist the judge..etc as above

Customer:

I will get the transcript

Customer:

I know what happened because I have notes and remember clearly

Alex Watts :

Ok. Once you get the transcript you will see what the Judge said (because when you go back to Court another Judge will need this).

Customer:

it is just as I describe here

Alex Watts :

Ok. Well if the Judge just did not order interest you would have to appeal

Alex Watts :

If the Judge did order interest and the office staff did not include it then it would be an amendment

Customer:

sorry, I realise this is long

Customer:

is this hearing an appeal, or can it be then?

Alex Watts :

Its not an appeal.

Customer:

and should I just ignore the note about relevant law and state that this is an appeal? I thought an appeal wold be with a different judge

Alex Watts :

No, because if its an appeal you need to file an Appellants Notice

Customer:

do you know what it is then?

Alex Watts :

And then file a transcript as well

Alex Watts :

No, because I have not seen the Court orders or know what the Court has said.

Alex Watts :

I assume it is to consider your application to amend the order

Customer:

it says it is to decide whether interest can be added

Alex Watts :

That application may succeed or it may be rejected.

Alex Watts :

Yes, but it is NOT an appeal

Alex Watts :

Please also remember you asked detail low urgency when you asked the question. We have been talking hours.

Alex Watts :

This is to consider whether your application to amend is successful.

Alex Watts :

But you need to get the transcript to provide the Judge about what happened that day

Alex Watts :

It wont necessarily be the same Judge that heard your original case

Alex Watts :

But it is not an appeal from what you have said.

Alex Watts :

Does that help?

Customer:

well i quoted exactly from the letter, but I don't feel any further forward

Customer:

it is the same qc

Alex Watts :

Ok, I will opt out then and let someone else help you.

Customer:

it says that this is to consider whether interest can be now that the order has been sealed, (at the end it adds that the service request I made will also be considered)

Alex Watts :

Then it is not an appeal because it does NOT say it is

Alex Watts :

If it was an appeal the order would read:

Alex Watts :

The hearing of the APPEAL will take place on (date/time)

Alex Watts :

You would also need to file appeal documents which you have not been asked to do so

Alex Watts :

Therefore it is NOT an appeal

Customer:

I will call the court again to see if there is any clarification - I don't know if I'm asking here possibility of amending a sealed order (regardless of what amendment), or asking possibility and wait and then state the interest and ask , or both at the same time as I begin speaking

Alex Watts :

Ok. Is there anything else you want to know from me?

Customer:

Yes, is it possible expert to assist and see the above background?

Customer:

also, re the asking , my question was about the directions hearing I am due to attend, as I said I been to the final hearing already (I was awarded expenses and previous hearings). I asked because the order is made, so I am unsure what happens in regards ***** ***** costs

Customer:

how can i pay something time/ should i rate or will that close the question from others?

Alex Watts :

Yes if you rate it does credit me time. However others can still see the question

Ash, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 10916
Experience: Solicitor with 5+ years experience
Ash and other Law Specialists are ready to help you

What Customers are Saying:

 
 
 
  • Thank you so much for your help. Your answers were really useful and came back so quickly. Great! Maggie
< Previous | Next >
  • Thank you so much for your help. Your answers were really useful and came back so quickly. Great! Maggie
  • A quick response, a succinct and helpful answer in simple English. I believe I can now confront the counter party with confidence -- worth the 30 bucks! Rick
  • Wonderful service, prompt, efficient, and accurate. Couldn't have asked for more. I cannot thank you enough for your help. Mary C.
  • This expert is wonderful. They truly know what they are talking about, and they actually care about you. They really helped put my nerves at ease. Thank you so much!!!! Alex
  • Thank you for all your help. It is nice to know that this service is here for people like myself, who need answers fast and are not sure who to consult. GP
  • I couldn't be more satisfied! This is the site I will always come to when I need a second opinion. Justin
  • Just let me say that this encounter has been entirely professional and most helpful. I liked that I could ask additional questions and get answered in a very short turn around. Esther
 
 
 

Meet The Experts:

 
 
 
  • Jo C.

    Jo C.

    Barrister

    Satisfied Customers:

    30316
    Over 5 years in practice
< Previous | Next >
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/EM/emus/2015-7-7_192327_bigstockportraitofconfidentfemale.64x64.jpg Jo C.'s Avatar

    Jo C.

    Barrister

    Satisfied Customers:

    30316
    Over 5 years in practice
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/BE/benjones/2015-12-1_0437_ennew.64x64.jpg Ben Jones's Avatar

    Ben Jones

    UK Lawyer

    Satisfied Customers:

    11553
    Qualified Solicitor - Please start your question with 'For Ben Jones'
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/BU/Buachaill/2012-5-25_211156_barrister5.64x64.jpg Buachaill's Avatar

    Buachaill

    Barrister

    Satisfied Customers:

    1754
    Barrister 17 years experience
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/JO/jojobi/2013-3-19_0265_maxlowryphoto.64x64.jpg Max Lowry's Avatar

    Max Lowry

    Advocate

    Satisfied Customers:

    894
    LLB, 10 years post qualification experience
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/UK/UKLawyer/2012-4-12_9849_F2.64x64.jpg UK_Lawyer's Avatar

    UK_Lawyer

    Solicitor

    Satisfied Customers:

    750
    I am a qualified solicitor and an expert in UK law.
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/KA/Kasare/kasare.64x64.jpg Kasare's Avatar

    Kasare

    Solicitor

    Satisfied Customers:

    402
    Solicitor, 10 yrs plus experience in civil litigation, employment and family law
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/OS/osh/2015-7-7_19268_gettyimagesb.64x64.jpg Joshua's Avatar

    Joshua

    Lawyer

    Satisfied Customers:

    8199
    LL.B (Hons), Higher Prof. Dip. Law & Practice