How JustAnswer Works:
  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site.
    Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.
Ask Jo C. Your Own Question
Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 70212
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice
12826847
Type Your Law Question Here...
Jo C. is online now

On advice of my barrister I pleaded guilty to an offence at

Customer Question

On advice of my barrister I pleaded guilty to an offence at magistrates court. I understand I cannot appeal the verdict, but I can appeal the sentence. My barrister asked for either an absolute or conditional discharge as I have no criminal record. I was sentenced to £700 fine, £620 costs, £500 compensation, £70 victim surcharge.
In my appeal of sentence to Crown Court, can I still go for an absolute or conditional discharge? The sentence is overly harsh according to my legal team; can I apply for community service instead of the fines and compensation?
The complainant in this case has committed perjury, of which I have subsequent concrete evidence....I plead guilty on the basis of this perjured evidence being furnished on the day of court hearing. My barrister asked for an adjournment on the day due to this evidence being furnished on the day of trial....this was refused and he was told as the witnesses were all there the trial must go ahead.
What are my options? The evidence I have of the complainant giving the police perjured evidence are definite and absolute.... he registered agricultural land with the government that he had no right to do. On this basis I had to plead guilty....but I have subsequently found he has fraudulently registered the land.
The most important thing for you to answer please is - Can I still apply for an absolute discharge in the interests of justice?
Many thanks for your help Madam.
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Hi.
Thank you for your question. My name is ***** ***** I will try to help with this.
-Could you explain your situation a little more?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo, many thanks for your helping me today.
The charge was Sheep worrying by my dog - however the sheep were trespassing on my land - the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953 - clause 3 states that if the sheep were trespassing in my land then I am not guilty.
My dog chased the sheep off my land into a disused quarry, heavily forested.
The cps produced (on the morning of trial) evidence that this forest was in fact registered as agricultural land.

On this basis my barrister told me I had no choice but to plead guilty, even though I told him this was not possible, as the land did not belong to the person that the farmer had a tenancy agreement with nearby.
My barrister obviously failed me here.
I have since found out that the land where my dog chased the sheep is owned by 2 separate people. They both have never registered the land as agricultural, plus have never had a tenant.
The farmer (the complainant) has fraudulently registered someone's land he had no right to. Both land owners will come to court to verify this. He has also defrauded the government to obtain a grant on this land. It came out in the prosecutions statement that the farmer himself had registered the land. He has further defrauded the government because the number of trees per hectare (50) is far exceeded meaning it cannot be registered as agricultural land.

With the prosecution furnishing this evidence only on the day of trial, my barrister told me I had to plead guilty. He was told by the court we could not adjourn and the trial was going ahead as all the witnesses were there.

The whole case rested on this land being a forest, that was not part of the farmers tenancy agreement. My barrister knew at this point the land did not belong to my who was renting his own land to the farmer.

The farmer knew on 26.03rd from the land agent that the land he claimed to be renting from my neighbour was not so. The police did not obtain the evidence of registration from the government agency till 01.04th, the case being heard on 8th.04th. Therefore this is the concrete proof that the complainant was in full possession of the fact that the land in question had been falsely registered. By continuing this pretence he is without doubt guilty of perjury?

The magistrates stated that they believed my version of events but still punished me severely, they even tried to destroy my dog, who had done nothing wrong, but eventually allowed her to live as long as she does not come 1 mile of my home.

I just want to know that when I appeal the sentence (I understand my guilty plea means I cannot appeal the verdict) -- can I go for an absolute or conditional discharge, which my barrister tried to obtain on the day? I have no criminal convictions or cautions ever.

The issue of perjury by the complainant is clear - I have an email from the land agent on 26.03rd confirming that the farmer was told that the land in question was NOT part of his agreement with my neighbour....he was still misleading the police after this because they did not have the document until 01.04th.

Can I go for an absolute discharge at appeal at crown court please?

Many, many thanks for your help Jo.

I have to get the appeal in today Jo, so I need your advice very urgently please.

Your sincerely ***** *****

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Sorry for the delay.
I am in a court with weak internet connection.
What would you like to know about this please?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I am appealing at Crown Court against the sentence. I know I cant appeal the conviction because I plead guilty.

Can I appeal at the hearing to have an absolute discharge?? Or secondary a conditional discharge.

The one piece of evidence the prosecution brought up on the day - i.e. The land being registered by the complainant as agricultural, has since been found to have been registered fraudulently. The farmer knew on 26.03.15 he had made a huge mistake by registering land he was not entitled too - he was told by the land agent on or before this date that he had no right to have registered this land as it did not form part of the agreement he had with my next door neighbour.
The police did not receive the registration details from the government agency till 01.04.15 -- this is clear proof that the farmer was misleading the police from 26.03.15 and by allowing the evidence to be produced on 08.04.15 he has committed perjury.
What can I do to further overturn a conviction based on perjured evidence???? Please bear in mind that this one piece of evidence produced on the day was all that led me to plea guilty.

My most important question for now is -- can I try to get an absolute discharge at the appeal. This is what my barrister tried to do on the day. Secondly what do I do about getting the conviction overturned because of perjured evidence?

Many thanks Jo, my mobile is *********** should you wish to speak. Thankyou for your time and knowledge on this matter Jo.

Regards ***** *****

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
If this is an appeal from the Magistrates then you can appeal a guilty plea. There is an automatic right of appeal. There isn't much point because a guilty plea is obviously rather damaging to any credibility.
But you can appeal the sentence which is essentially what you are asking. You can ask the Judge to impose an absolute discharge at the time of the appeal. In fairness, that is a bold step which is rare. I think I have only ever achieved it once and I have had many cases where it would have been appropriate.
In terms of perjured evidence, it depends what you mean by that. I wouldn't make that allegation. Perjury is not likely to be made out. If you say the evidence is false then that is something that you can challenge on appeal but then you have to appeal the conviction and then your guilty plea would be damaging.
If you are saying that you pleaded though because you accepted advice based upon the view of the law of counsel which has subsequently transpired to be incorrect then that is an answer to any questions arising.
Can I clarify anything for you?
Jo
Jo C. and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Jo,
what I need to know now is what I can do about the perjured evidence the prosecution produced on the day of court.....
08.04 - day of trial, they produced an email from Government stating the land in question had been registered as agricultural.
Because of this my barrister convinced me to plead guilty.
01.04 - This was the date of the email from the Government.26.03 - On this day, the complainant, a farmer Cordiner, went to the Land Agent and was clearly told that the land in question (an ex-Quarry, heavily forested) was not part of the agreement between my next door neighbour and himself.Therefore, he knew on 26.03 that he had mistakenly, or fraudulently registered the forest land as agricultural. This land is owned by 2 totally different people from the owner of nearby land that he did have an agreement with. They are more than willing to come to court to state that this farmer had no right to register their land..... he did so without their knowledge or agreement.He was made aware of this by the land agent on 26.03 - but the police did not have confirmation of the registered land till 01.04. The case was heard on 08.04 and Cordiner allowed the CPS to produce what he clearly knew was a fraudulent document ....... this is absolute proof of perjury ...... he allowed evidence to be introduced on 08.04 that he knew without doubt from 26.03 was registered falsely.My case all along was that Cordiners sheep were trespassing on my land and my dog chased them off my land into the heavily forested quarry which cannot possibly be agricultural land. The Protection of Livestock Act 1953 states in clause 3 that a dog owner cannot be guilty if the sheep were trespassing on my land. The Act also is only applicable to agricultural land.My barrister badly let me down on the day - he was in full possession of the fact that the quarry land was owned by someone else that Cordiner did not have an agreement with. He still insisted I plead guilty as the magistrates would accept the document as proof of it being agricultural land and they would find me guilty.My questions today are ....... considering I only pleaded guilty because the prosecution produced the email proving it was agricultural land ....... and I have concrete proof that Cordiner allowed this evidence to be produced knowing it to be false ..... what do I do about this perjured evidence??????
The magistates accepted my version of events - i.e. The sheep were on my land, and my dog chased them into the forest.Second question is - my barrister told my wife and myself that I would be able to appeal if I could later prove the ownership issue - but he could not conduct the case for us as he would be called as a witness. However as I pleaded guilty I have no right to a re-trial at all, only to appeal the sentence.
On the single advice of this barrister I have been denied an appeal of conviction when he clearly told me I would have the right....... do I have to sue this barrister for the subsequent costs?Thankyou Jo -- please help me here, becuase I have been found guilty on a point of law -- but it is easy to see that this point of law has been produced by deception and by perjury by Cordiner..........
am willing to fight all the way to the European Court Of Human Rights on this issue ...... it cannot be justice for me to be convited on a single piece of perjured evidence that was obtained illegally in the first place.Thankyou Jo, I await your verdict, primarily on the perjury issue.Yours, Nick Skelson.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
What is the evidence of perjury?
Please don't put yourself to detail. Just a brief summary will be fine.
I don't see a perjury at this stage.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Jo,08.04 - day of trial, CPS produced an email from Government stating the land in question had been registered as agricultural.
Because of this my barrister convinced me to plead guilty.
01.04 - This was the date of the email from the Government.26.03 - On this day, the complainant, a farmer Cordiner, went to the Land Agent and was clearly told that the land in question (an ex-Quarry, heavily forested) was not part of the agreement between my next door neighbour and himself.Therefore, he knew on 26.03 that he had mistakenly, or fraudulently registered the forest land as agricultural. This land is owned by 2 totally different people from the owner of nearby land that he did have an agreement with. They are more than willing to come to court to state that this farmer had no right to register their land..... he did so without their knowledge or agreement.He was made aware of this by the land agent on 26.03 - but the police did not have confirmation of the registered land till 01.04. The case was heard on 08.04 and Cordiner allowed the CPS to produce what he clearly knew was a fraudulent document ....... this is absolute proof of perjury ...... he allowed evidence to be introduced on 08.04 that he knew without doubt from 26.03 was registered falsely. He continues to lie to Police between 26.03 and 08.04 - by allowing a document he knows to be fraudulently procured be served as evidence, he has committed perjury, as well as deception by registering land he has no legal claim too.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
The crux is the land being registered as agricultural --- it is registered by deception (to obtain a grant from the government) - the land does not meet the legal standards of less than 50 trees per hectre, there are well over 100 in a mere acre ..... everything about this man is lies and deception - and I have a criminal record because of him.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Ok.
But what is the perjury?
I'm afraid producing a document known to be a fraudulent one is nothing even remotely like perjury.
He didn't produce it. He didn't exhibit it. He wasn't in the witness box even from what you say.
Lying to the police is not perjury although it might be perverting but nothing will happen over that. Perjury is giving false evidence on oath and there needs to be more than one witnes to convict.
I wouldn't waste your time on this. The police and CPS only can decide whether to prosecute for offences contrary to public justice and they are not going to in practice. They almost never prosecute people for these offences.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
The law truly sucks Jo. So you say this is not perjury, but it is perverting the course of justice. There are more than one witness Jo, there are 2 land owners who will give evidence plus the land agent will witness he was told on 26.03 he had no legal right to register this land. He most definitely has perverted the course of justice - so what do I do, do I report this to the perverted police?
Help me Jo - I have not broken the law, but am being persecuted for a crime that was not commited, I want justice not fobing off.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No, that is not what I am saying.
I am saying that it is not perjury on these facts but may be perverting possibly.
There are always ways out of these things though.
You are wasting your time. I am very sorry but this is a complete dead end. He is not going to be prosecuted for perverting whatever action you take.
If he were going to be they would have done it by now. It is not a reporting offence. It is a matter for the Crown alone.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Yes, but the Crown is unaware of his deception .......... A very important point here Jo, is that he has defrauded a Government Agency to obtain a grant ..... he has defrauded the British Government ...... the Police have to look into that dont they?
How do I make the Crown aware of his perverting the course of justice - is the first step to report it to the police?
How will the judge assess this information at my appeal against sentence?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Thanks for responding to me so late Jo, I appreciate it thankyou.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No, but it will come out in the course of your appeal.
You can always show it to the police but I wouldn't suggest that. They will just take instructions from him and then he will be given longer to think of a lie.