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Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69995
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice
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I have a case currently where my employer has alleged that

Customer Question

Hi i have a case currently where my employer has alleged that i have stolen Equipment and have reported this to the police, the police have visited and found no evidence however they are saying it appears i am selling stolen equipment on ebay which is not the case as eveything i have is with permission, how i would go about defending myself?
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Thomas Judge replied 1 year ago.
I think that the key is for you to be able to provide them with proof that the items you are selling have been purchased by you - so proof. Receipts or some other such proof. Happy to discuss but please rate positive.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The IT equipment was given with verbal permission as an employee, it was not purchased?.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
HiAre you selling anything ?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Not currently no, items are sold
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Ok.
I presume they belonged to your employer?
Or not?
What were the circumstances of that sale?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Yes they belonged to the employer however i was given permission that it is ok to take the items
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
How would we go about defence?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Is there any evidence of that?
Obviously it is unusual.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The evidence they have according the police is ebay but there are no company polices define anywhere
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
No, but on eBay the police have evidence you are selling their products? I'm surprised they are satin there is no case unless there is more to this
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
They have asked to interview us on wednesday, they came looking for all the items but found nothing at my house
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
You mean the police have asked you to be interviewed?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Yes correct
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Ok.
You are still being investigated. They just haven't been able to find the goods which is to be expected as they say that you have sold them.
In terms of proving this, ultimately there are no magic wands. All you can do is gather the evidence that is available. If there is no written evidence then it comes down to their words against yours and the credibility of both positions.
I haven't had vision of these items or your set up but realistically you will have to really go some to convince anybody that your employer gave you permission to sell his goods for your personal gain. One wonders what he gets out of it. I suppose if you can establish that there was a good reason that would help.
Can I clarify anything for you?
Jo
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
How can i convince that the employer gave me permission? The only thing i can say is other staff members have IT equipment as well?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
So i feel i am being singled out?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Well, that is always impossible to answer. There are no guaranteed ways of achieving that.
The way you convince is to give evidence in a way that is believable and compelling. How that is done is impossible to say.
Generally speaking it is easier to do if you are telling the truth than not but otherwise it is impossible to say what makes an account believable.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok what do you think are my chances and how i should go about my defense
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
You will have to really go some to convince anybody that your employer gave you permission to sell his goods for your personal gain. One wonders what he gets out of it.
I'm not sure what you mean about your defence? Can you ask a specific question?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Do you defend a person if they are guilty? Or only if they are not guilty?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Oh yes, some defendants are guilty.
Mind you, quite a lot of complainants are just next week's defendant as well so there are no real innocent parties in most criminal cases. Victims become victims because of the company that they keep.
The only time that lawyers have to withdraw is if they are asked to advance something that they know is a lie.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
How much truth does one tell your solictor about the case circumstances
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
You should be full and frank with a solicitor. Otherwise they can't advise you properly.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
How often does the cps drop cases where the defendants state they were. Authorised to take the alleged theft equipment or belived it was ok to take the equipment
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
It is very unlikely that CPS will not charge this I'm afraid.
What you are dealing with is the chances of getting off at court.
To be wholly honest, you might struggle to argue that your employers gave you permission to sell their equipment for your personal gain.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
If equipment was given to employees to take home and do as they wish does it matter if they than decide to sell it to make some cash
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Yes.
Being given equipment to use is not permission to sell.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
But surely equipment given which the company is disposing off is now yours and you would be entitled to sell it as there were no specifics defined at fhe time the equipment was given
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Not unless they said that specifically.
Trouble is that it begs the question of why they didn't just sell it themselves. I'm really sorry but it just isn't particularly credible that they would allow sale for employees personal gain.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69995
Experience: Over 5 years in practice
Jo C. and 2 other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
What sort of sentence does one expect for proven theft/dishonesty
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Whats the value roughly?
I'm happy to continue with this but please rate my answer.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Upto value of £7000.00
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
how is theft treated if alleged equipment is identified for sale on ebay by employers but the equipment was not taken yet but was intended to be taken if sold on ebay
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Value of equpment = £7000.00 approx
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi Jo, what do you think?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
I would concentrate on being acquitted.
Im afraid the sentences are fairly high for theft from employer and this is a high amount. It probably does get over the custodial threshold although a court would probably suspend it if you have no previous convictions.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
What is the custodial threshhold and what does suspended sentence mesn
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Prison I'm afraid
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
How does one getacquitted?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
You give evidence in a way that is believed.
Presuming you have a defence of course.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Well my defence is that A) i were given permission by our manager b) there is no specific guidelines or company rules c) other people in the company take things and have company property in their homes... So i feel i have been somewhat singled out?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Points b and c are non issues.
Unless you had specific permission from somebody able to give permission there is no defence.
Then you have to explain why this firm didn't mind you selling £7k of equipment for person gain.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Well i had permission from my manager however now he has changed his tune in that he is denying employees can take equipment!
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Yes, I thought that might have happened. People do sometimes lie I'm afraid.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi jo
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
In my contract it states the following please see attached
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I had permission therefore i do not understand why they are saying everything inhave been given over the last 6 years is stolen.?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Probably because they are saying dont believe you had permission.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
So what would i do to defend myself in this case?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
What do you think the chances are in court of one persons word against another being in favour of the alleged person? In other words who would the jury believe to be telling the thruth?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
There is no way of predicting that really. It depends on too many variables.
Given the value of these items it might be difficult to get a jury to accept that things were as you say.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
My company has asked me to attend an investigatory meeting now without a lawyer when there is a Criminal case pending? They are advising me that i cannot have anyone acompany me, do you think this is advisable or correct?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
That is an employment question and I wouldn't know the answer to that. From a criminal point of view, I don't particularly like it as it is just an opportunity to say something contrary to interest.
If you are on a subscription then posting another question should not cost extra. My colleague Ben is an employment specialist.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
We have asked Ben, and he is stating that this is two seperate issues and that there should be no issue attending the interview, i am finding this very difficult because on one hand i have the criminal investigation and the other is that the employer is asking me to attend a meeting?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
I wouldn't know anything about the employment situation I'm afraid.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
What would you say from
Your opnion that my chances are if this did go to court?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
I haven't had vision of these items or your set up but realistically you will have to really go some to convince anybody that your employer gave you permission to sell his goods for your personal gain. One wonders what he gets out of it. I suppose if you can establish that there was a good reason that would help.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok but how would you prove your defence?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Well, that is always impossible to answer. There are no guaranteed ways of achieving that.
The way you convince is to give evidence in a way that is believable and compelling. How that is done is impossible to say.
Generally speaking it is easier to do if you are telling the truth than not but otherwise it is impossible to say what makes an account believably

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