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Alex J.
Alex J., Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 3613
Experience:  Solicitors 2 years plus PQE
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I was asked to carry out some work by a third party.

Customer Question

I was asked to carry out some work for someone by a third party. I was not to invoice the third party but instead the company I did the work for. I did this and they have not paid me. They were fully aware of the work I was doing and did not dispute any of it and accepted the survey report I issued and invoice as no dispute was ever raised. They have not paid me for the works and kept promising to pay but never did. I sent an LBA by recorded delivery which I thought was ignored so I issued county court proceedings. Since then Royal Mail have returned the LBA to me saying it couldn't be delivered as there was no one in the car park. I though this was a little odd so I did a search of the company using there registered address and it come back as being a multi storey car park in london for the postcode and I cannot find the building either. I suspect that they have provided false information to companies house in this case and suspect that the court paper would not have got to them either. On Monday I can request judgement but feel lost because as I suspect it is a false address then how am I supposed to get my money as if I send bailiffs etc then they won't find them either. I understand that providing a false address is fraud so wonder if I could issue a claim against the director personally? or if you have any ideas on how I can proceed?
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Hi.
Thank you for your question. My name is ***** ***** I will try to help with this.
Why do you think it is a false address please?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Because when I search for the building name I cannot find any results on google and also when I search the postcode then that postcode only relates to a carpark a car hire company within a car park and a car wash within the car park. The only other business I can find there is the building company I did the work for. I checked the postcode with Royal Mail too and they come up with the businesses that were listed there. Also based on the fact the postcode must only relate to the carpark because the postman wrote on the recorded delivery letter that he couldn't deliver it as no one was in the car park. I would also suspect with the building name that when I do a search on google that it would come up with a result and also with Royal Mail if I do a check it would have a result but there is nothing.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Do you have their actual trading address?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No, that's the only address I have for them. I have emailed them many times but they do not reply. I have spoken with them many times on the phone too when they have promised payment but never made it and they confirmed that the address I have is correct. I have a feeling that if this address is incorrect which I have no reason to believe it does exist then they are purposely trying to deceive people. I expect they probably work from home otherwise I would again expect there to be some kind of information about them on google etc. I have found the directors address and according to the electoral role he is still registered as living there this year.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi, not sure if you saw my reply above or you need time to consider this one?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Sorry about the delay.
I have asked out corporate specialist to look at this as it is clearly more of a company issue than a breach of contract.
I will chase him up for you.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No worries I wasn't sure if you got the reply etc. No rush I can't enter judgement until Monday but wanted to know my position and how to proceed really.
Expert:  Alex J. replied 1 year ago.
Hi
Thank you for your question and welcome my name is ***** ***** my colleague has asked me to assist you.
Did you invoice a limited company?
Have you checked the company at Companies House?
Kind regards
AJ
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi,Yes it is a limited company and the address I had is the same as the registered office address at companies house.I have found since that they also have another limited company name with a similar name that carries out business at a different location which does clearly exist so wonder if there is some kind of fraud going on although the company I invoiced has been around since the late 90's
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi Alex,Any chance of a response to this please?Thanks
Expert:  Alex J. replied 1 year ago.
Hi
Thank you my apologies - I have limited internet access over the weekend.
Was the company with the similar name formed recently and does it have the same director as old co? You may be able to pursue the director personally for reusing the name of company that has gone insolvent.
The only way to pursue the director is to put the company in liquidation.
Can you tell me what connection the "third party" had to this limited company?
Kind regards
AJ
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi Alex,Thanks for the reply.The company with the similar name was formed in 2003 so isn't new either.In terms of the similar name the company I am pursuing is C&R Contractors Ltd and the other company I have found is C&R London Properties Ltd so not sure if the name are similar enough.If the company I am pursuing have an address that is essentially fake i.e. the car park I think it is and they have registered this will companies house then is this no fraud and to have registered that address then surely it was with intent to defraud?You mention about pursing the director if I put the company into liquidation but if there has been a case of fraud then could I not take action against the director without the insolvency based on the fraud and also they filed their annual return about 3 weeks after I did the work and they had been insolvent then the director surely would have had a responsibility to take action at that time and again if that is true then is the director negligent in his responsibilities as a director?The third party is an individual that works for a company but carries out some private work for the company I am pursuing. The third party isn't qualified to carry out the work I did so passed asked if I could do the works for them. I gave the third party the price but it was agreed that I would invoice the company directly as they would essentially be named on the survey report as the client etc.In addition as said before I do not believe they have received the court forms because of the address issue. Also companies house was going to strike the company off in August for not filing their annual return. They filed at the end of September so it was suspended. I strongly believe that this was suspended because companies out would have written to the directors service address after they had no response to writing to the registered office address.Sorry loads of questions but I really want to take the right steps so I don't potentially waste too much money in the event I can't recover it.
Expert:  Alex J. replied 1 year ago.
Thank you. I have received this and will revert to by tomorrow morning at the latest. Kind regards AJ
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thank you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi Alex,Still waiting on this.
Expert:  Alex J. replied 1 year ago.
Thank you.
My apologies for the delay.
The potential issue with the false address is that it is potentially a breach of the Companies Act 2006 and an obligation to have a proper registered office and also a breach of the Trading Disclosure Regulations. The director could be heavily sanctioned and potentially be disqualified for this breach. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/495/regulation/3/made
If they are clearly trading and not actually operating from this address then not only is this indicative of fraud but it leaves them open to a fine for breaching the trading disclosure regulations.
As a starting point have you checked on companies house for the director addresses? or are they the same?
Are you still in contact with the third party? Where does the third party work from, a home address?
Kind regards
AJ
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi,Thank you for the reply.I have checked the address of the director and it's different. I have even done a land registry search and he owns this property which I believe is his house.So if I was able to prove this address doesn't exist and reported it to companies house although I wouldn't be able to know the outcome of their investigation I could surely take action against the director as it would be for him prove it does exist?? Maybe make an application for the director to attend court to answer questions and prove the address as a specific. Not sure what that procedure is called but I remember it happened to me once with a water company as a personal issue.The third party works as an employee for another company and only does a bit of side work every now and then. This is done from home and would think is mostly done for cash.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Also just to mention that a land registry search of the so called building does not come back with any results.
Expert:  Alex J. replied 1 year ago.
Hi, Thank you. There is something known as a part 18 request for further information or you can require an examination under oath. If you can obtain the directors address then you have somewhere to serve the proceedings. If they are ignoring you, then you need to send the director a solicitors letter. Seeing the letter on headed paper of a solicitor will give the added gravitas that you have been advised and should be taken seriously. I would get a local solicitor to write to the director and say that they are clearly incorrectly registering the company details in breach statutory obligations to mislead creditors. Say that if they do not settle your invoice in full you reserve the right to complain to Companies House and will look to hold the director personally liable for the company debts. The only issue you have is the director may say he never requested your services.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thanks for your reply.I will do what you have suggested there.On the subject of denial. They have never denied the works being carried out or disputed the invoice, survey report.They have never replied to any of my emails but I have had quite a few telephone conversations with them which were via hands free mostly in the car. There was a witness present at the time too.Would that help with any case if they denied anything based on the witness statement I could produce along with the fact they haven't denied or disputed or queried anything that has been sent to them.If all else failed would I have a case against the third party although I wouldn't feel hopeful for recovering money from an individual.
Expert:  Alex J. replied 1 year ago.
Hi,
Thank you.
Written evidence is obviously best, ***** ***** you have recollection of a telephone conversation that occurred approving the work this can be submitted to court by a witness statement.
You need to remember details such as time and date, as that will be very important to show your evidence is consistent.
Kind regards
AJ
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thanks for your reply.So if all this went wrong, would I have a claim against the third party as well?
Expert:  Alex J. replied 1 year ago.
Hi, Thank you. The only way this is possible is if you could prove the third party received some direct benefit from the services?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok thanks. No he didn't although at least he says he didn't but I assume not otherwise the company would be saying they have already paid and proved it.So moving forward and now judgement has been issued I am thinking I will do the following and would like your thoughts then I think we are done.1. I have emailed them this morning with a last ditch attempt to get payment (not likely)
2. I will get a writ from the high court and send HCEO's which is pretty cheap and will help me build a case that the address doesn't exist. If it does then I happy days as they should be able to get the money or seize assets.
3. If that fails instruct a solicitor as you suggested to the send a letter stating action will be taken against the director personally etc.
4. Start proceedings against the director. I would issue proceedings myself and then if they respond and it becomes complicated then instruct a solicitor to deal continue with it.How does that sound?
Expert:  Alex J. replied 1 year ago.
Hi
Thank you.
You will only be able to push ahead with personal proceedings against the director if the company is put into liquidation so that may be a step to consider.
It is definitely worth contacting the director and ask him/her to explain why the company has not paid and putting them on notice that you will seek to hold them personally liable.
Any feedback is gratefully received.
Kind regards
AJ
Alex J., Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 3613
Experience: Solicitors 2 years plus PQE
Alex J. and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thanks Alex for your help. I think I know how to best to proceed now :)
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi Alex,Just a quick follow up in case you ever like to know what happens with your cases.Good news, my email seemed to work this morning and they have paid in full.Whatever they do now with their business address etc now is not my problem thankfully.Again thanks for your help.
Expert:  Alex J. replied 1 year ago.
Excellent.
If i can assist any further please do not hesitate to contact me.
Thank you for your kind feedback.
Kind regards
AJ

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