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Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69775
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice
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I was in McDonald's at a till buying food whilst having a debate

Customer Question

I was in McDonald's at a till buying food whilst having a debate with the waiter re Sauces. A lady approaches me from the side and comments "who do you think your talking to" then repeats the N word twice (racial insult) and spits in my face this could have been due to her shouting. We started arguing and after a while I walk away. As I have my back turned she approaches me again and hit me in the tummy area, my food falls to the floor and the 1st thing I do as she approaches me was to throw sauce at her to keep her at bay. I then walk away for the second time, she pursues me and approaches me once more and a react by pushing her away. We were both given public order cautions section 4, I am not happy as I felt that I acted in self defence. Should I appeal ?
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Hello what you are you hoping to achieve with an appeal?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Removal of caution
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
It was all on camera cctv
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I have learnt that the lady in question was not happy about the way I was talking to the waiter at the till she apparently used to work at McDonald's. Irrespective of how she felt racially abusing me then attacking me is wrong.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Will I receive a response sometime soon ? Thanks.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Why did you accept the caution if you disputed it?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
My admission was what I had done as i described and I was not informed that I had an option I thought it was mandatory. An hour after receiving the caution it dawned on me that I have a record and the ramifications as a result of the caution. I did some research and realised that I had an option which was not explained to me, the caution was given in the absence of a solicitor. At my initial arrest i was told multiple things, assault, affray etc was very confusing. Reading my post interview notes from my solicitor he stated " you was acting in defence" which is what I described ! How can I get cautioned for acting in defence?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I have been in contact with the police twice but they have not responded.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Thanks.
I'm afraid that there is no appeal from a caution.
In truth, throwing sauce at a person is an act of retaliation anyway rather than an act in strict self defence. It just plain doesn't have the effect of restraining a person. I am not saying she wasn't behaving badly but that is not the test.
In any event, if you were cautioned for S4 rather than assault then the caution would arise from the argument earlier.
A caution is like a guilty plea at court. The only challenge is that it was not unequivocal which is impossible with a caution as you must have admitted the offence in interview.
The only challenge to a caution is to judicially review the decision to offer a caution. That leaves you in difficulty anyway as you did accept the offer and you did have legal advice at the time. However, judicial review is a factual test so you could challenge it. They will not grant legal aid though and it is not a cheap procedure.
Sorry if that is bad news.
Can I clarify anything for you?
Jo
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I didn't have legal advice when cautioned, I had advice at the interview. My 1st reaction was to keep her at bay thats why I threw the sauce as she was approaching me I didn't think about it. It is strange that I received a caution, I was racially abused and attacked .Also my full name wasn't recorded and they got my address wrong. But I am sure it will still show up on my crb ?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
That is legal advice at the time of caution I'm afraid.
I think they are probably saying that the argument was a mutual one.
Your abbrievated name will be on your PNC as an alias and it will show.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Lastly, if my crb is based on my full name and correct address how will it show ?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
It will show on your DBS check because your abbrievation will be recorded as an alias on PNC. The DBS check comes from information upon PNC.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Made up: ***** ***** William,*****sp1 5uj dirth dob 21/7/79 will be picked up against ***** ***** ***** **********e21 9jb dob 21/7/79
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Not sure what you mean?
The first name you gave to the police will be recorded against you. Any subsequent names will be an alias.
I'm happy to continue with this but please rate my answer.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 69775
Experience: Over 5 years in practice
Jo C. and 2 other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
They do not have my full name and they some how managed to record a a wrong address only God knows what they were thinking.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
They will have taken your prints and DNA.
You are identifiable I'm afraid.

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