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Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 70416
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice
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I paid £200 online to Learner Riders Ltd (9291962) motorbike course. I turned up

Customer Question

Hi, I paid £200 online to Learner Riders Ltd (9291962) for a motorbike course. I turned up for the course and and they failed to show up...wasting my whole day because I couldn't plan anything else. I was so disappointed and stressed that I lost faith in this company.
Later, Denise Todd (owner) admitted to me via email that it was "humman error" that she did not send a cancellation email. I asked her for a refund (which she declined saying they can still provide a service at a new site). I said i'm not prepared to travel 11 miles away to a new site to do this course and would like a refund. I have had to take my business elsewhere (locally) to do a motorbike course.
The company is now being proposed to be struck off the Companies House register. I hear Learner Riders Ltd have unpaid rent/debt overdue and I'm not the only person chasing them for my money back!
I basically paid £200 for a service I haven't received and Denise Todd will not give a refund, at all. Can I get my mone
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Why did they fail to show up?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi Jo! They didn't say. I was just standing there at 07:45am (as instructed by email) onsite like a lemon and had to keep calling and calling their mobile phone and landline. No answer. I called back around 12midday to which she replied she "thought" she sent a cancellation email. I said I wouldn't be standing onsite if they had.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
She admitted via email that the email didn't get sent out due to "humm
an error". They won't give a refund but can still provide the service (at another site).
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The "new" site (not stated on their website or email) is 11miles away from the original site and i'm not prepared to travel that far. The new site is not what I paid for. I wanted to do the motorbike course local to my home.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
That is not particularly good news I'm afraid.The short answer is that you could sue at the small claims court. There are two problems with that. The first is that it sounds as though they are going under. If so, the claim would die with limited company unless you can actually prove fraud.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
The second is that they could argue that they were able to offer the service. The fact that they didn't on this occasion doesn't preclude the offer on another date. I realise that you had lost faith in them but that is quite a high legal test and one instance of failing to attend as a result of human error is not going to get over the hurdle. Something like them having no qualified instructors would.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
If they are still trading though then probably they wouldn't contest it. It is not worth the manpower hours.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
When she accepted my booking, they must have already known they were in serious debt because they owe a large amount of unpaid rent to the original training site.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Yes, but that doesn't make it fraud.Companies shouldn't be trading if they can't pay their bills but they do and sometimes they trade out of the financial problems.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Denise Todd is the owner. Her husband is the motorbike instructor. He has now being self employed as an instructor at a local motorbike training course.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
What are the chances of winning in a small claims court?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
If they are going under then it is not particularly high I'm afraid.If they are still trading then it could go either way. I am afraid I could not be sure a Judge would find your argument compelling. Clearly you had every right to be annoyed about their failure to attend but it is not enough to lose faith in a company. That said, you still haven't had the service from them unless they are arguing they kept somebody available for you.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Could I argue that they didn't provide a service, as agreed by email at the address/training site given?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
You could argue anything but it isn't going to work. Unless the contract said time is of the essence the delay is a non issue.The location will not be such a specific term of the contract that failing to provide it there allows you to leave.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
So there's no chance in claiming back my £200?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
No, that is not what I said.If they are still trading then it could go either way.you still haven't had the service from them unless they are arguing they kept somebody available for you.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thanks Jo I appreciate it! What do you suggest I can do next?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Are they still trading to your knowledge?I'm happy to continue with this but please rate my answer.
Jo C. and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I'm not sure.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I don't think so because their website is no longer available online.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
But I do think the husband has gone to work self employed under another company.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
It depends how much risk you want to take.You could sue the individuals and try to argue that they should be personally liable because the company is a sham. The risk is that if you lose then you could be liable for actual costs. You can find out if the company is defunct from companies house.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
They are pending to be struck off. They had their first warning/notification in the Gazette on Feb 9th 2016.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Ok. That is that then. Your only options then are to sue and get a CCJ that may not lead to any money or to sue the individuals and take the risk of costs or to write the money off as a bad debt I'm afraid.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Roughly how much would is cost to sue them and get a CCJ?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Under £50. That is not expensive. It just might not be worthwhile.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
It will be if it goes onto their credit history.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Actually, I paid the £200 via my credit card. I refused to pay it but Learner Riders told my credit card company that they can still provide me a service...
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
and I would still have to pay...
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
But if Learner Riders Ltd are going under...then they can't provide me a service? Can I try to dispute it again with my credit card company under section 75
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Your credit card company are a better defendant because they can pay.You would probably lose for the reasons above but I would imagine the credit card company would just settle. They won't go to court over £200.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Should I refuse to pay my credit card for the £200?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
No. They will just add late payment fees and defaults to your account.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Can put it back into dispute with my credit card company stating that I haven't received a service (because they are being struck off the Companies House)?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
*Can I
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
You could do that but they will not agree.the truth is that if they contested it you would probably lose for the reasons above.If you sue at the small claims court though then they might just throw their hand in as it is cheaper to pay out then devote manpower to it.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
If I sue them personally, would I be able to claim back solicitors costs from them if I win?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
They have a habit of starting up a company, then do what they want, scam people out of money. Then get struck off the Companies House. Then do it all again. Start up a new company...and it goes on...
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
This is why they don't give a flying monkeys about customer service and how they treat people. And they know all the tricks in book 'no refund. Can still provide the service at a later date....."
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
This was the only response she kept repeating....like a parrot
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
And she was smug about it knowing that I cannot get my refund. Because they knew they were already in deep doo-doo.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
You won't have to pay solicitors costs. It is a small claims court sum so you can represent yourself.If she provide the service then you do have a difficulty.What she cannot lawfully do is close down companies and set up new ones taking people's money and not offering the service.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thanks Jo! This was causing me frustration and stress for the past few months. Thanks for clarifying my questions. I should have come on here sooner!! Take care
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
No problem.All the best.