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Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 70009
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice
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We are a US LLC company with a UK registered branch here in

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We are a US LLC company with a UK registered branch here in UK and are an (LLC) Ltd company. We have received a notice of intended prosecution for a minor speeding offence but we genuinely do not know or remember who was driving . It could have been any 1 of 3 different drivers. The notice of intended prosecution states that the company secretary must deal with the forms but we don't have a company secretary. We are really afraid to just guess information as it may not be correct.What can we do.?
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Hello have you approached the people concerned to see who may have been the most likely driver?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi, I am not responsible for the administration of the company. We don't have an official company secretary. Also we did not receive the original notice of intended prosecution which was supposedly issued 5 weeks ago which is why I want some advise how to proceed . I have no asked any of the other potential drivers if they remember driving at tat time.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
What is your position in the company?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I am a director
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Are you in the UK or the States?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I am in the UK and am a UK national but we also have another director who is also a UK national
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
There are really two issues here. The first is who is responsible.The second is your S172 responsibilities.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
In terms of who is responsible, the company is obviously responsible if it is the registered keeper. They can also demand this information from any person believed to be able to provide it which would extend to directors. I realise there are other directors and it would be unfair to single you out but that won't prevent them doing so.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
If you are not yet named though then they could only summons the company and levy a fine as a company cannot be subject to points.What will happen though is that they will summons you or one of the directors as well if you don't provide so it will impact upon you personally.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
OK but we cannot be 100% sure who was driving at that time and I do not wish to supply information that may not be true and the same applies to my co director. I don't want to put my name to the form and neither does my co director
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
That is the second issue.You can't guess. if you say anything equivocal then that isn't complying with S172 and if you give incorrect information knowingly then that is perverting the course of justice and then people would be going to prison.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Exactly which is why I wont fill in the form. What should we do.?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
S172 requires you to investigate the identity of the driver. Usually it is possible to ascertain who was driving with reasonable effort. Especially companies who can always check records. The problem with this is that Magistrates do generally know that if the allegation were more serious - for instance, that the driver was hanging around outside primary schools trying to abduct children - then the registered keeper would find out who was the driver so fast the world would spin.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
If you genuinely cannot say who was driving then there is a defence in saying that you cannot ascertain the identity of the driver with reasonable diligence. The burden of proof is reversed onto you though and it is a high test as Magistrates tend to distrust this defence.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
But if that is your defence then you will have to raise it.If you really believe you cannot ascertain the driver then you need to respond to the forms by saying that the driver is either A Or B or C. There is case law that says that if a driver does that it is for the police to investigate which of the candidates are the culprits. If the case law is followed that should be fairly foolproof but you never know with Magistrates which way they will jump.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
:-) I know but my question is that if we don't fill in the form and say just send a letter saying we are unable to complete the form then I would assume the police must decide if to summons the company and in which case I believe that a solicitor can represent the company and not the directors..is that correct.?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
No, they will summons you for the reasons I mentioned above.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
They would summons both directors.?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
So what course of action should the 2 directors take.?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Well, only really the one I mentioned above?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
OK but we are unable to fill in the forms as it does not have a section that says we cannot identify the driver.Maybe I should write to them.?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Are we still connected
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
No. Just write on that form 'Please see attachment one' under the section that says that you are not the driver but you are identifying the driver - I think it is section b but I'm not looking at the form obviously.Then write the identities and their addresses on a sheet of paper which is STAPLED to the form.That is what happened in DPP v Jones and it was accepted that it was adopted by the S172 form.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 70009
Experience: Over 5 years in practice
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