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Ben Jones
Ben Jones, UK Lawyer
Category: Law
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I asked early retirement notice to be withdrawn/rescinded/retracted

Resolved Question:

I asked for my early retirement notice to be withdrawn/rescinded/retracted etc.
I got an email next day from my request saying that my manager had stopped and reversed my leaving forms and duy sent my request and her instructions to HR.
8 days later someone from HR said this was not appropriate in their view [for reasons that I don't want to involve in this question]
My manager then sent a new set of papers [online forms I believe] to HR asking to re-instate my leavers forms.
When challenged by me the legal/HR dept said the first email was not as I thought a retraction but a holding email.
Can you describe what such a process a holding email with a reversed form process that was then 're-instated' might be in someone's notice.
My manager had full authority to retract [and there was a case or she would just have said no]
Would a hold - without anything described as such on the revers etc eemail be a practical possibiity in reality. Is it a delay of my notice for example stopping my leavers forms.
Why does a manager need to reverse leavers forms when just apparently pending some information.
The information came 8 days later - is it normal to take so log to decide.
Maybe this is an HR question about retraction process etc
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
Hello, my name is***** am a qualified lawyer and it is my pleasure to assist you with your question today.
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
What are you exactly hoping to achieve please?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I believe my notice was withdrawn in that reverse email. Employer claiming it was a holding email - but there is not evidence of that. Manager clearly doing something but we do not agree what. I am challenging their position.
In so doing i need some understanding of the form reverse process - then reprocessed when changed mind 8 days later.
And some idea of what a 'holding' email would be about, if no mention of holding or waiting or conditional given. what would holding mean in a notice with papers reversed - a delay, extension, a temporary situation with no purpose for the forms despite their reversal and stoppage and later re-instated to put process through again?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Gonna make a formal complaint - council employee and also stakeholder in the council - I am not happy with their behaviour.I would like to say I did not believe their claim this was a holding email message when forms were instructed to be stopped reversed in response to my request for a rescind.Also, no information appears to be asked for by my manager in the nature of 'holding'. And indication to me thet the stop and reverse of my leavers forms was conditional, or waiting for something, or holding pending my retraction. What is 'holding' in a notice period? What was the process of stop reverse forms? What was the purpose? Did it give time - would I still be on my notice period if this holding had gone beyond? etc
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
Apologies for not getting back to you sooner, I experienced some temporary connection issues and could not get back on the site until now. All appears to be resolved now so I can continue dealing with your query. There is no formal legal process that covers your situation as such. For example there is no set of laws which state specific steps in this type of process so that you can identify each one here and relate them to your situation. The general legal position would be as follows:· If you wish to retire/resign/leave your employment, you submit notice of that request to the employer· This decision is legally binding once notice is properly communicated to the employer – they do not have to formally accept it for it to be valid. Therefore, once you had submitted your request for retirement, it would be binding on both parties.· If you subsequently wanted to retract that notice, you may do so only with the consent of the employer, a consent which they are not obliged to give· Similarly, they cannot retract the notice unless they had your consent So in this case, if you wanted to place a hold on the procedure, you would have had to use specific words to that effect. If your request was to withdraw your notice, or similar words to that effect, then it is not a request to place a hold – it is clearly a request to stop the process and cancel it. However, remember that there would have likely already been a binding notice to leave in place so it could have only been retracted with the employer’s consent. Therefore, whether this was placed on hold or not, a retraction is not guaranteed if you had submitted such a request – they could have rejected your request at any time regardless of whether the original request was treated as a formal retraction or a hold as they had claimed. I hope this has answered your query. I would be grateful if you could please take a second to leave a positive rating (3, 4 or 5 stars) as that is an important part of our process and recognises the time I have spent assisting you. If you need me to clarify anything before you go - please get back to me on here and I will assist further as best as I can. Thank you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
This is persistently difficult to explain, I'm afraid. Can I say I know all about resignation and retraction rights etc and thanks for bit of extra colour on that.
After a chat with my manager she suggested I send in an email request to withdraw etc. For good or bad she appeared to accept the very next morning in response to that email request by saying she has sent my request forward and asked HR to stop and reverse my leavers form. 8 days later she changed her mind and asked HR to re-instate my leavers form. I put it to the council [my employer] that the email my manager sent at first was a retraction [tho' yes not specifically stated. Agreed.]They were not clear on it since they started making defences. The main defence being that the stop reverse email was a 'holding' email pending some information [that never happened]. There was no such indication on the email. So their claim it was a holding message is far from specific. I am challenging the credibiltiy of their assertion. I ask what can be holding here with the papers/process reversed. What is the reasonably assumed effect of reversing leavers forms which the HR tam will have done as required. And then the manager being advised by an HR individual to not go ahead but to re-instate.It is absolutely known that my manager had already checked that the decision to retract was hers and hers alone, twice by email to HR the day before - so when she sent a request, in the normal way of things to HR, telling them to stop my leavers form and reverse and leavers form the day after I asked [modestly with no expectations] for a retraction, this was a holding situation according to the council. So why stop and reverse. What is this stop/reverse holding thing? If needed info - which we find she did not - why not just get it without processing forms with HR [as one does when there is a resignation or retraction or multiple other stuff. HR do the admin for the processes. Processes dictate.I hope you are able to capture the question somehow. I doubt this holding defence the council claim when looking at my position that this was a retraction. [not calling manager a liar by the way - its HR/Legal pushing this not her.]
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
just before I consider this further can I have the exact wording of the request you sent please?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
One last shot - what is the relationship between the instruction and action of stop and reverse my leavers forms - and then later start and re-instate [their word] my leavers forms 8 days after my request for retracton - and this concept of a 'holding' email [with no such indication on the email. What is the connection between the managers instructions and the councils claim of only holding not retracting.
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
This whole holding process could be an internal procedure, regardless of your request. As mentioned, the employer has the right to choose whether to accept your request for retraction. Receiving this request, dos not guarantee acceptance of it and allowing you to retract the notice. So they could have received your request and placed the whole procedure on hold whilst they consider that request - that doe not mean the retraction was accepted, it just means they are contemplating that request. They could have accepted it and then put s permanent stop to the procedure, or they could have reinstated the procedure, effectively rejecting your request and this is what appears to have happened here. Hope this clarifies?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thinking - may call tomorrow - getting late
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
ok take your time, thanks
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Disregarding all other things - I need to know how I am legally allowed to argue a case here.An email was sent that appeared to retract my request to withdraw the day after I asked for it. The terms of the email were not specific enough to prove beyond question.My view is that it was sufficient given all the circumstances. The council's response was to claim that the email was a 'holding' email. And they have given some reasons and statements to that effect. The council could have just said 'I take your point but we do not feel it is sufficiently specific, can I prove it? They did not - they went to some length to describe instead this holding concept.This holding claim is full of holes. They made it, of course, without prejudice but it is clear that they are making a specific claim as to the content and intent of the email [rather than leaving me with it].My only way forward is to challenge their description of events. If proved false and not credible and very unlikely nd inconsistent then I might claim that the truth is it was a retraction - there being no other purpose for the content of the email.The email has stated earlier said 'stop and reverse' the process etc. This was not a refusal of my request. It was not - if shown - a holding/waiting to decide message [as they claimed], so it reasonable to take it that it was a retraction.Added to which I can provide clear reasons why it might be a retraction and why the holding idea that the council is relying on is a way to look at it but not as the council clim [and I prove] and requiring a retraction as an essential action to take i.e. the info required was to be found after a retraction.Am I able to use this approach to prove my case i.e. challenge the defence's/respondents case as a way or proving mine?I am aware of most other things - been on this a while and as stated spoken with solicitors on other matters.I am not asking for the strength of the case. Or what i might do with it. etcThanks - sorry missed phone chance. Another time maybe.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Can this be a case based on an outcome that is 'reasonble' for a normal minded human to believe that might be acceptable here. If my scenario makes sense and council's doesn't, for example.All in legal format - assuming that route taken one day [not an issue here]
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
I think I tried to explain the legal position but I will have to strip it down to basics to make it clearer. You had made a claim for retirement, which was accepted and in effect the retirement became legally binding. It could subsequently only be stopped with the agreement of both you and the employer. You made that request and the employer considered it but never confirmed that your request was accepted and the retraction approved. They refer to a holding process but that is rather irrelevant - they could call it whatever they want - holding, waiting, considering, etc - the fact of the matter is that until they have confirmed that they have actioned your request and the retraction has been formally implemented, they can decide to hold your request or whatever they want to call it but it does not change the legal position
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thanks - of course it is my view they have done as you say. What they have claimed, in defence, does not make sense and is not a credible explanation of the actions taken which may well be what you describe. A formal process appears to have been undertaken - etc etcMy question was can I make an argument technically, in legal process, to challenge their claim to prove/substantiate mine. They being respondents and me being claimnt. Or is it up to me to prove everything - and they don't have to prove anything. Can I insist they prove the claims they made - thus strengthening my case that they have formally retracted as you have advised ie. instructions sent to HR for retraction. If I can get this answer I will have what I need to know. What is a claimant allowed to do in a legal proceedings as mentioned above.If this is too much, by all mens say so. I don;t know what I get for my money. I am on a trial so yu may wish to claim a question via that - I don;t know your system. All you have kindly provided so far I already know - its this more legally complex question that I cannot research otherwise.Regards
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
If you are to make a claim, you have to prove your claim, not for them to show it was not the case. I am not sure if you are looking for something which legally does not exist. From my experience and knowledge of law (and I have worked there for numbers of years) it is as described. If you need really technical advice where someone gets bogged down in the obscure legal text then you need to engage a barrister as that is what they do – they find those hidden legal bits but it does cost so up to you if you want to go that far. Sorry I could be of no further help
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Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Fair enough - I did pick something up as it happens.
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
Thank you, ***** ***** was of some help