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Ben Jones
Ben Jones, UK Lawyer
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There I need Solicitor Advice Claim Court

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Hello there I need Solicitor Advice for Small Claim Court matter, I am trying to get money for the cost of my repair on car damaged. It's being a year now and I have to prepare appeal on the ground of Hearing and Judgement transcript. I will attach transcrip with important points colour marked. Same will do with judgement. I need reassurance that it is clear to see what I see and believe that Judge just agredd to accept parts and labour costs to cover in final judgement. On the judgement it is first clear to me that judge agreed for part costs as well as labour costs to add court costs on top of that. I believe Judge just forgot about the material costs in final calculation. That's why we appeal the judgement. I hope you can help as hearing approaching. Thanks
Submitted: 10 months ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 10 months ago.
Hello, my name is***** am a qualified lawyer and it is my pleasure to assist you with your question today.
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 10 months ago.
Thank you for attaching the transcript. I will review the relevant information and laws and will get back to you as soon as I can. Please do not respond to this message as it will just push your question to the back of the queue and you may experience unnecessary delays. Thank you
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Hello thanks for fast reply. Let me find the judgement with MISSING PARTS COSTS, can I attach file for you? so it won't delay answer very much. You will not be able to advise me without judgement itself.
All over hearing it looks that judge had very little idea of how auction works and what the starting price is.
On the end defendant suggested to judge that we made up money on the car, like our effort of repairing, was to "delete" the guild of his. that he didn't make damage ad somehow did good to the car increasing its value? that was cheeky suggesting their guilt reduces with the money I made on restored car. (Car after all did reduced value as being "accidental repaired" comparing with what it would achieve as "non accidental, original" condition.) Neither Judge nor defendant got understanding that every damage, and restoration reduces car value, and the condition it is not back what it was pre-accidental never again. Do you get me?
So my main appeal is that I heard in the court room that Judge agreed for some part costs of 500. then acessed labour half price towards garage prof. fees for 250. Added court fees and on the end omitted costs of materials in final calculation. I was just speechless when I had heard the announced calculation. Could not believe it. Our Appeal hearing is on the 10 of May so it'll be a year of troubles to get some finances towards car damage. I hope you can support me that I got good understanding there. Regards
renata
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 10 months ago.
ok thank you I have checked the document, so what do you believe you are entitled to following the judgment please?
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
5. So the award is £250 plus court costs, £60 on filing the claim and £80 hearing fee, so the £250 plus £140, that is £390, and that is the award. My question is, where a hell the costs of materials vaporized? I was sure he will start form: £500 for spares and materials and so on as it is...
There is nothing, not even £1 towards the materials? That's not fair you can not repair with bare hands or paint with water. It was in at least 2 places said that Jydge accepts spare cost and then wanted to access labor value, too.
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 10 months ago.
Ok so looking at the judgment I note the following points:· Para 1 - Judge says that the claimant said that parts and paintwork cost £500 but clearly states that any evidence is of no use to him. Therefore the claim is made based on the evidence the court had at the time which did not include evidence of the materials· Para 2 – judge accepts that garage evidence will be taken into account and that a value of £500 will be used for materials· Para 3 – Judge has decided that he will use the £750 as a starting point for the value of the car. On top of this he added the £500 for the materials to make the total value £1250. This is the most important part – he has already added the cost of the materials to the claim to make the total value £1250. You then sold the car for £1200 so this is where there is only a difference of £50 and you must remember that this amount has already taken into account the material costs.· Para 4 – the extra value of the claim is increased to take into account the labour you provided So as you can see the materials have already been included in the total value of the claim, they will not be treated separately afterwards so I really do not see anything wrong with this judgment or how you have grounds to appeal. I'm sorry if this is not necessarily the answer you were hoping for, however I do have a duty to be honest and explain the law as it actually stands. This does mean delivering bad news from time to time. I hope you understand and would be happy to provide any further clarification if needed. If you are still satisfied with the level of service you have received I would be grateful if you could please take a second to leave a positive rating by selecting 3, 4 or 5 starts at the top of the page. Thank you
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I don't get that I'm sorry. If I got vehicle 100% in good order and starting price was given as £750. It could achieve anything up to 4000£ there were auction prices of similar cars these days these conditions. ( My car was restored a year ago.) Ideal condition. Then man came over, crashed my car for estimated damage value of materials and labor near to 100% of car's value. Estimation: labor £515, parts £461, additional costs -paints and tools £288. I asked of £500 from all of that costs only plus fees. I thought it was fair to ask just 1/3 of it £1265 without VAT. I can not understand the Judgement idea. I need to see defendant Roy making it up for me, making my car ready back for driving and selling OR paying for me doing it! On what way the Judge believes I was paid for the damage WITH MATERIAL COSTS? If I never was given them? How come my own efforts, are counted as part of Roy's payout of my loss? How much I sold the car for should not be of this court interest or assessment. IF I was able to work on car, find unique parts, it took me weeks and months before I could sell it- is not something Defendant helped me with. It should not at any point reduced his payout of repaying the total costs of repairs done on the car. The Small Claim Court was NOT TO find value of the vehicle BUT to refund my repair costs in full by person who done damage to it! If the defendant took car for repair and brought it back in pre-accidental condition showing me the garage bill I'd accept it. I would not need to meet in the court. He harassed me by making me extra troubles, distress, and problems, I shouldn't need to drag him to court. It shall be simple. The Judgement is injustice. First I'm told I'm getting all my costs and I get only a little bit towards it! Damaged done shall be paid in full not partial payment. I had not caused any damage to the vehicle, why was I made to pay towards its repair costs? Was I part guilty for damage? That's how the judgement interpretation looks like.What are you trying to say that I had no right to sell vehicle with profit? What If It has gone sold for £4000? Would Roy's/defendant guild reduce even more and he would be made paying £10 and I was paying the rest??????
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 10 months ago.
The Judge here worked specifically on a fixed price of £750 which is the starting price of the vehicle. As he said, there is no guarantee it would have sold for more, it may not have even sold for that amount, but that is the amount he has decided to use as the value of the vehicle. So that is what he proceeded based on - this is his decision, it is not an error of law so it is not grounds for an appeal. It is not that you were not allowed to sell the vehicle at profit but the more you got for it the more your losses would have been reduced. So that is why there is no error in law here to allow you grounds for appeal - this is a matter of not agreeing with the decision but that in itself is not a reason for appeal. I appreciate you wanted a legal professional to provide an opinion and I have done so, I am sorry if it is not what you wanted to hear but I do have to say it as it is
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Hello, thanks for your opinion, but where do I go next because I do not agree with the decision?
There is "funny" interpretation small claim worked.
I sued the hooligan who came around and damaged my car. I expect the legal action to make defendant to pay/ or fully repair the damage done. I NEVER CLAIMED AGAINST THE BUYER TO COVER FOR SOME OF THE DAMAGE, WHICH IN FACT WITH THIS JUDGEMENT HE PAID FOR THE CAR REPAIR NOT BECAUSE HE LIKED IT! The Small claim court says: you sold the car then your damaged is paid! It is not! If I had not sold the car, what then? The £750 as fixed price is wrong idea. I could start of £0.99 as well. The value of things on auction is set by the amount of money the bidder wants to offer! I kept listing car for few months for different starting prices for fast sell. (As by Wirral Council order I had to reduce my cars kept of one by 21 of May 2015)In fact the hooligan who made damaged DOES NOT FEEL the guilt, thinks that I'm harassing him! It's all upside down! How about me? I rushed to sell as per Council Order and instead of having it sold fast I had to move car round for months taking repair first!
PLEASE advice which court should I go next to get justice ? Did I write my claim wrong way, should I wrote it other way? Did I choose wrong Court? Should I choose the other court?
The damaged was repaired by me - not the man who damaged it, not by offender!
I DO NOT AGREE THAT EVERYONE IS ALLOWED TO COME ROUND, DAMAGE MY THINGS AND NOT BEING MADE TO PAY FOR THE OFFENCE/ DAMAGE DONE IN FULL!
PLUS at time of incident in May my household was all over in debts and first of all debt advisers was saying : sell spare vehicle to pay bills. Right?
Going via small claim court all my potential "earnings" I could get for paying some of my debts is taken away by the Judge to make me paying for damage not caused by me! Struggled to pay repairing car instead of paying my bills! I had no other car on the road at the time to save for debts, and was left with no car to use. Had to borrow more money to Tax and Insure bigger car even sell was not done! ( Registered Classic Vehicle was with TAXED with symbolic fees. And very low Insurance: £130 per year of Insurance!) Had to put Chrysler on the road with expensive Tax Road and Insurance over £400! Where is the justice? Where is me being harassed and left in troubles and more debts? Judge was not prepared to ask of my situation, so I need full track court procedures! I need justice!
I'm now better with finances as year passed, the Judge and the defendant let me down and harassed when I struggled the most! It's just robbery in the name of law and encouragement for hooligans to continue damaging things and going away free of charge! OTHER THING WHICH JUDGE DID NOT EVEN WANT TO LISTEN: defendant was told to call his insurer before running the car. He never did. He broke the law and damaged 2 cars in one minute. His car repaired by insurer, mine by myself due to him not wanting to insure for viewing of car. He was arrogant all way along, delaying with every message, after my hardest time passed and my car was nearly ready to go up for sale again, he offered me to buy the car for say £350. I declined saying sell done. I did not want to deal with this man again, as he promised to cover every penny for damage, whilst he made damage. His insurer instructed him that what he's done would not cover by insurance, cause he never complied with policies, and called only post factum! So that's why we had to meet in some court as he new he was instructed he was 100% guilty and must pay 100% himself for all damage. Roy was trying to say nothing happened to my car while hit the bigger car and the other one got serious damage! Panda is light car, not a tank! All parts of it just mis-shaped, bent, radiator bent and leak and its structure frame, 2 headlights crashed. I could not even get the lights on the market as no longer in production! Had to ask collectors, and searched online. He left us in the limbo. He was instructed by his insurer what's what. After all of that instructions the Judgement of Small Claim Court like magic released him from the responsibility of covering whole damage! I can't believe it! Made me part guilty for damage as had to pay for repair from my possible revenue.The Small Claim is not the one to cover this shall I go directly to Strassburg or there is instance above in UK I can get justice for us?
I really would like your advice which court I can go so I get satisfaction after all of theis mess. Thanks
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 10 months ago.
I am sorry but Strasbourg will have zero interest in hearing such a claim. I can discuss the appeals options in the UK, please leave a rating so I can continue answering follow up questions further, many thanks
Ben Jones, UK Lawyer
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Experience: Qualified Solicitor - Please start your question with 'For Ben Jones'
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Expert:  Ben Jones replied 10 months ago.
Many thanks. If you want to appeal you must get the court’s permission to do so. The appeal court will allow an appeal where the decision of the lower court was either:· Wrong (in that it erred in law or in fact or in the exercise of its discretion).· Unjust because of a serious procedural or other irregularity in the proceedings in the lower court. This may sound simple enough but in reality it is not that easy. In the circumstances I do not see that the decision was wrong in law or in fact, it is basically a dispute as to what the value of the car was, which in the absence of a concrete figure certified anywhere is not a perverse decision. Anyway the first step is to make an application for permission to appeal. This is done with the following form: http://www.jordanpublishing.co.uk/system/uploads/attachments/0002/2197/n164_e0407.pdf

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