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JG_Legal
JG_Legal, Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 45
Experience:  Experience of consumer law, financial regulation and criminal law.
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I had my card reused in a club abroad. The took £15000 out

Resolved Question:

I had my card reused in a club abroad. The took £15000 out but the bank are saying because it was chip and pin that it's my fault. What can I do?
Submitted: 8 months ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  JG_Legal replied 8 months ago.

I'm a barrister. I used to work in the card fraud investigations department of the Financial Ombudsman Service. I can help with your query.

There are a number of ways you can dispute this payment. The question is whether the bank can prove you authorised the payment. Different rules apply to credit and debit cards.

Was the card a credit card?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
It was a debit card.
Expert:  JG_Legal replied 8 months ago.

Was the fraudulent transaction(s) taken from a credit balance or a debit balance (i.e. your overdraft) or a mixture of the two?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
credit balance.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Have you got advice?
Expert:  JG_Legal replied 8 months ago.

So the money taken was money in your account.

This means that you must show that the transactions were not authorised by you AND that you were not negligent (when it comes to credit card frauds and money taken from overdrafts you don't have to prove that you were not negligent, hence why I asked the question).

So, what does 'authorised' mean? That you were shown the amount to pay and you told your bank to pay it (the emphasis on YOU). What does negligent mean? In the context of card fraud, it is negligent to write your PIN on a bit of paper in your wallet (for credit cards it does not matter).

How do banks establish that it was authorised by you? The first question is how would another person have obtained your PIN. If, for example, there were cash withdrawals a short time before the disputed card transactions you can argue the fraudster might have 'shoulder surfed' you, seen your number, and then taken your card and used it. The absence of a genuine transaction where a PIN was used before will raise the question how did the individual get your PIN.

What kind of venue was it? Did you make any authorised transactions before?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
It was a strip club on a friends stag do. I used the card once and the card was in my wallet(which I found on the floor) at the end of the night. My pin is not written down.
Expert:  JG_Legal replied 8 months ago.

Have you had a final response letter from your bank?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
They said they investigated it but have never received a letter.
Expert:  JG_Legal replied 8 months ago.

How long ago. If 8 weeks has passed since when you first raised it you can refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. They will look at your complaint for free and if they decide the money should be refunded the bank will pay it back. You need to explain how someone may have got your PIN either a stripper, bar staff or a fraudster. A way that doesn't suggest you've been negligent.

I think this answers your question, if it does, please accept. If you require clarification please ask.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Would they of actually had to use my card or just the details?
Expert:  JG_Legal replied 8 months ago.

If its chip and pin authorised your card would need to have been in the machine and your pin entered. About 17 pages of algorithm data is produced to authorise, basically your bank talking to the merchant acquirier. The FOS will check all of this so thats your best bet.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
The fact that I found my card is not good then?
Expert:  JG_Legal replied 8 months ago.

Not ideal. Then it must be accepted the fraudster swiped and returned which I know the FOS are not readily inclined to accept.

Expert:  replied 8 months ago.

Do you require further clarification?

JG_Legal, Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 45
Experience: Experience of consumer law, financial regulation and criminal law.
JG_Legal and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Would the bank not have queried the large amounts being taken out of the account in a short space of time?

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