Can you explain the layout in more detail please?
Was this a row of privies of which you owned one and varies other people owned others?
Has whoever knocked it down knocked them all down, including yours?
You know why this has happened?
Would it be possible to attach a plan or sketch indicating the layout with some explanatory notes? Thanks.
Thank you. Take your time.
Thank you. I can tell you now why they’ve demolished this. Apart from the fact that it was an eyesore as it was and it still is an eyesore, they have sold the stone.
The local authority will not be interested with regard to the demolition of this unless it was a listed building which seems unlikely.
However, because of the eyesore which has been left, the council can issue the culprits with a cleaning up notice called a section 215 notice.
You would also need to look on the title plans to see whether you owned part of this you just had the right to use it because if you owned part of it, then the removal of the stone is theft which becomes a police matter.
If it’s not obvious from the title deeds owns the area, take a copy of the title plan of your own property and highlight this area on it and send it to the Land Registry with form SIM https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/527246/SIM.pdf
and the land Registry will come back and tell you whether the property is registered or not. If it’s registered, they will give you a title number. Once you have the title number, you can get the title deeds of registered land using this link for £3. https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/www/wps/portal/!ut/p/b1/04_SjzS0tDQwMTIxMjLXj9CPykssy0xPLMnMz0vMAfGjzOKNjSxMDA1NjDwsjM3MDTxN3dyNDUNMjQ1MjPWDU_P0c6McFQH3SLFU/
Once you have established who owns it, you would then be in a position to move forward either for compensation or with the police and to push the local authority. Don’t worry about the fact that one of the owners is a councillor.
Can I clarify anything for you?
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If you find the land is not registered, there is no easy way of finding out who owns it if no one in the local area knows. However if the land is not owned by any known person, whoever took the stone is guilty of “theft by finding” and hence, it becomes a police matter.
Normally, in each of the houses deeds it would mention whether there is just the right to use this or whether it’s part of the title.
If you have the right to use it but not own it, they have now obstructed that right by removing it. You might want to use the old privy belonging to your house as a shed. You could claim compensation from whoever destroyed it but you would need to know who owned the land.
If you have a fourth share mentioned in your old registration title deeds, that may need regularising in your deeds if for some reason that was omitted when your property was registered. That then gives you a much more substantial claim.
Moiety literally means a part of the whole thing, usually one half. If you substitute the word “half or part” for moiety, that works, as does equal parts or equal shares.
When I was referring to regularising the deeds, I was meaning that if you owned a part of the privy, that needs adding into your deeds. All there needs to be a separate deed of the privy part owned by you. If that’s the case, then this is definitely theft of the stone.
So, looking at the wording, it is probably the most convoluted and confusing deed that I have had the pleasure to look at.
It says that in 1964, the owner got the seller’s interest in the privy If the privy had been conveyed to them immediately prior to 1925 which was when the Law of property act came into being.
We would now need to look at the conveyance from 16 October 1925 and the conveyance from 1964. Moving from deed to deed like this is not at all uncommon when trying to work backwards.
I have a bit more information for you.
I asked a colleague to look at this for you and he has come up with the following reply
Moiety can mean half, but it can also mean equal share......and I think here, it is open to interpretation.
The Deeds conveys the dwelling house, which is known as No***** with the ground or site upon which is it built. That much is pretty clear. However, it then goes on to say that the owners of No*****has a coextensive moiety (not necessarily half, but perhaps equal share?) of Pear Street. I take this to mean that the street is unadopted, and each of the owners of Pear St have an equal responsibility for its maintenance, together with such rights as may exist in the privy ashes place and passage lying to the west of the house. that is a share of one fourth of the privy and ashes place and passage - presumably there are 4 houses which "share" the passageway/ashes place and privy.
So, I can't give a straight answer, only one which I surmise..... that is he doesn't own it for himself, but he owns a share of it. Even with the deeds, which would be useful, and all the transfers and conveyances referred to, it may still not be completely apparent.
I actually had 2 colleagues look at this because of the extremely convoluted nature of these old words. This is typical of the kind of legal speak used by lawyers at the time in order to keep the legal profession as a closed shop. The general public, legal speak in the United Kingdom is now largely a thing of the past. The answer I sent you, is the easiest to read of the two or three of us are of the same conclusion.
If you all own one fourth, (I wonder why they never said one quarter or 25%?) Then none of you can knock it down without the other consent and even if you all consented, know what a few can take away the stone which belongs to the 4 of you.
The council will get involved but only with regard to section 215 notice to clean up the area which looks a mess. That’s obvious from the photograph. If the council will not get involved with that, complain to the Local Government Ombudsman. The irony years that the 4 review are responsible for the cleanup!
You would be entitled to reimbursement from the culprit was that made the mess.
I would certainly go along the theft of stone route and go along to the police with the information you have including this answer which confirms that you owned ¼ of this and it’s been taken and you know the culprit.
What actually happens here is that the building is not divided into four pieces and you do not own your individual 1/4 piece, but rather or 4 of you on the whole thing jointly. Hence, each of you own a quarter of the whole thing is supposed to an individual quarter. I hope that makes sense.
Yes, you can still contact me. If you want to talk on the phone, because it can be quicker, we can also do that and I will submit a premium services proposal for you which you can take up or leave in abeyance. Best wishes.
I have put that in my diary to call you. Shall we say 4 PM? I will also give you my contact details in the separate contact section.
It’s just a thought, but I’m happy to ring you now or over the weekend if you want to speak sooner rather than later. The choice is up to you.
Hi, I need your contact details please and I can call now
We have spoken. Best wishes
Glad to help.
No need to fight. Just keep ploughing away.
I would allow two weeks for the reply from the chief executive.
If you do not get a reply, then it’s further grounds for complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman.
PS did you report theft of stone to the Police?
I can’t see what implications there are if you go to the police.
There was a building there.
It was made of stone.
You had a part share of it albeit the deeds are quite vague.
The stone has gone. It has been stolen because you didn’t consent for it to go.
By all means go down the fly tipping route.
We shall see what’s happens. The police will not be intimidated by the councillor.
Incidentally, I no longer get notifications on this thread that you have replied because of the length of the thread so I might not get back to you as quickly as previously.
You need to press the police and if necessary speak to a senior officer make a written complaint to the chief constable.
It is a common tactic for police if there is anything the least bit out of the ordinary they will just say it’s a civil matter.
It is indeed a civil matter also but the fact remains that these stones have been stolen. If necessary, make a complaint to the IPCC