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Jake
Jake, Nissan Technician
Category: Nissan
Satisfied Customers: 3646
Experience:  Experienced collision repair technician, Pulaski Tech graduate and DSM hobbyist.
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Nissan X trail T 30 Diesel 2.2 2004 Bought this car 8 weeks

Customer Question

I have already spoken to you about this Nissan X trail T 30 Diesel 2.2 2004 Bought this car 8 weeks ago I knew it had faults mainly Bodywork and a rear wheel bearing It seemed to run well and started ok.Bearing and bodywork done I changed the oil & filters inc' fuel. The car will not start without a lot of winding and help from jump leads and a running vehicle. when warm it starts fairly readily. cold start system seemed the obvious but checks, out glow plugs and relay. So I sent it to Nissan in Manchester to ckeck on the computer, They also checked the abs & 4x4 system because the lights are on. !!!! no faults reported on the abs. The engine test was also inconclusive but the crank & cam position sensors were giving intermitent readings (what ever that means) I replaced both sensors to no avail. The only other pearl of wisdom My £100 got was that the timing chain may be stretched (not noisy) got any ideas.

Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Nissan
Expert:  Jake replied 2 years ago.

Jake : Hi there, sorry your having issues
Jake : Now hard starting is fairly common with crank/cam sensor issues. So replacing them was not a bad idea.
Jake : The thing that sticks out here to me is that you need to jump start the vehicle.
Jake : Now a faulty crank/cam sensor or a stretched timing chain wouldn't require a jump to start
Jake : The long cranking with those happens because of the sensors detection of engine position causing the glow plugs not to heat up.
Jake : Your situation on the other hand looks more like an amperage issue when cranking if it requires a jump
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

perhaps I should clarify, I need to jump start because the battery, when fully charged goes flat before the engine starts, there are no issues with the battery.

Jake : Wow your cranking it THAT much?
Jake : thats ALOT of cranking
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

yes

Jake : you don't have codes do you?
Jake : for intake advance or anything like that?
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

no codes from my gear or the Nissan dealer

Jake : What about puffs of smoke on initial start?
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

when it eventualy starts there is some smoke but very little

Jake : does it run ok once started?
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

yes runs well not lumpy & ticks over ok

Jake : what about fuel, is the system staying primed?
Jake : simce you verified the glow plug circuit was initiating
Jake : were the plugs wet on initial crank?
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

when it does start it happens suddenly you think its never going to start then bang its off . yes the fuel is definatly up because it has a hand primer ant you can feel the pressure when you go to start after priming no change.

JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

I have not checked for wet glow plugs after trying to start

Jake : Thanks,, this is a bit of a doozy I understand your frustration
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

should the glow plugs be wet after all that cranking ?

Jake : Yes
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

I will go and check should I log off?

Jake : you don't have to
Jake : they should at least smell like deisel
Jake : just reply when you get a chance
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

taken no 4 glow plug out and its dry

Jake : Are you getting an injector tick when cranking?
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

don't know but battery flat. now, I have taken the other 3 plugs out and there is signs of diesel towards the top of the element nothing like a wet spark plug .

Jake : Is the security light on solid when cranking?
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

can not find a security light, where should it be?

JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

is it on the left of the dash by the r/h demister vent if so it does not light even when cent locking is operated

Jake : A little red car with key
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

My owners manual says the light is on the drivers side vent it is not lighting at all

JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

have removed the bulb and holder from the dash and tested the led with a meter & it seems ok but does not light when in the car

JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

I am going to let the battery charge up over nite and check out the security system, will come back to you

Jake : I'm sorry, I was in church so I put my phone up when it staryed
Jake : started
Jake : But I will talk to you some more tomorrow
Jake : thank you
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

fixed the security light it was the led after all checked with the user manual and it is working as it should

Jake :

excellent, that's good to know

Jake :

since NATS will prevent injector pulse

JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

have you any further thoughts on the non starting?

Jake :

at this point I would just solidy the whether or not its a fuel or glow plug operation issue

Jake :

by using a little starting fluid on initial start to see if it fires up

Jake :

if it doesn't

Jake :

then we can safely assume the glow plug circuit is getting cut

Jake :

from the cam/crank reference signal interuption

JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

I will have to go and get some, I assume you mean good old easy start.

Jake :

yes, that will be fine for the test

Jake :

of course it will be lean and hot, but were not running it on it

Jake :

just seeing if it will start

Jake :

will be fine

JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

Hi Jake got the fluid squirted it up the air intake after the heat cycle had finished, think I overdid it the engine started and rev'ed quite high for a few seconds then came down to tick over.I then then turned it off before it warmed up , when I turned the ignition on again the management light was on I restarted the engine & it seemed to be in some kind of limp mode would only rev to just over 3 turned it off and went for my computer pluged it in light on but still no codes just for the hell I pressed wipe codes turned the ign on & then off, tried to start but it wasn't having it, another smaller squirt off she went light still on, turned it off, So I scratched my head & put away the computer, went back turned on the ign light is off car starts and runs normally While I was under the bonnet looking for some cause of the limp mode the ign was on and the engine not running I noticed a small rattle that seemed to be coming from injector pipes / fuel rail, not doing it now the lights off.Did I mention that the ABS & 4wd lights are on I assume this is not related to the engine fault. well that's it for now hope this gives you some ideas. thanks Dave

Jake : Thanks Dave, that is certainly peculiar from just a little shot.
Jake : The ABS issue will not effect starting, your are correct
Jake : One thing we know this is its a fueling issue at start
Jake : we know the glow plug circuit is working.
Jake : Which makes me wonder if your crank signal is
Jake : effecting injector pulse while cranking
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

Sorry you lost me now where do I look some kind of voltage drop?

Jake : You need to check for injector pulse
Jake : or
Jake : you can't get an accurate voltage reading at the crank sensor because it uses a wave pattern.
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

thanks I will do that.

Jake : Your welcome
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

Sorry Its been a couple of days but I have Been waiting for an auto electrician friend of mine to find his noid when he found it it was the wrong one so I borrowed his led test kit instead & checked no 1 injector plug. On cranking there was one flash then nothing I did this 3 times so I think it is safe to say there is little or no pulse on cranking. When the engine is running there is a regular pulse.

Jake : Thanks for the update. Ill will witk
Jake : work with you on this some later today.
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

Hi Jake tried to get you a few times what is the best time to try. Dave

Jake : In 3 hours would be great if you can do that
JACUSTOMER-pac9vtah- :

sorry Jake got Man flu & did not care about Nissans.. Had a thought is this a relay or perhaps an ignition switch fault?

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