Plumbing Questions? Ask a Plumber for Answers ASAP
Can you try disconnecting the brown from each valve and try again?
have tried that and still no joy, the neutral still remains live
Ok, put the browns back and take the greys out and let me know
Have tried that, the neutrals are still live.
have disconected each seperate item individually and still getting this neutral live
Ok, put them back, can you take the clock off the backplate and try again?
What voltage are you getting neutral to earth?
240 volts and yes removed clock off the backplate and the neutrals are no longer live
Ok, can you put the timer back on and turn off the heating and hot water and try again
put the timer back on and the neutral becomes live again
Do you have any wires connected to terminals 1 and 2 on the backplate?
we have, a live, a neutral, twin core into 1 and 2 and twin core into 3 and 4 however 1 an 2 are in a terminal block totally seperated from anything else
terminals 1 and 2 give power when the heating and hot water are off
You do not need them for an S plan
Can you trace that pair?
Or disconnect them
both disconnected in back plate and still neutrals are live
Can you confirm you have not run a neutral to the cylinder stat?
brown - hw on
brown - ch on
blue - hw
common/brown goes to and links to hot water on
Demand/blue goes to and links to brown hot water valve
ok - 2 wires to the cyl stat
2 wires to the room stat
3 to room stat
neutral , demand , common
can you ensure they are the right way round, remove the neutral (it will still work)
unless it is a Drayton then you will get no click
horstmann hrt 3 red in terminal 1
yellow in 3
neutral in 4
ok take out the neutral and try again
removed neutral and still getting live neutrals
(stands back with hand on chin to think)
we stopped it by taking the clock off
we have nothing in terminals 1 and 2
that i can understand, because it was wired up this way and worked until this morning.
yes nothing in terminal 1 and 2
Take the clock off
if you drop a link between live and 3 the hot water should fire
if you drop a link in between live and 4 the heating should fire
Is it a mechanical clock?
yes in an old potterton mini minder
does it still grind, moan and turn?
you get nothing at all, just gonna try the linking you suggested
Just to let you know it is a myson apollo 30/50 boiler
Myson Apollo - saviour of the 80's
was fabulous until an electrician came to wire it into the new consumer unit and then could not put it back together
I love electricians, they create so much work for me on heating systems!
yes i bet they do, basically we had two old bakerlight type junction boxes from the boiler and he wanted to put them into a new junction box prior to connecting them to the new unit and he didnt know what he was doing.
Has the boiler fired with the links?
just doing it now
leave the clock front off
Can you check the neutral for voltage (against the earth)
we have had new pump, new thermostat, new programmer and a new overrun thermostat lol
Ok what you need to do is follow the live, each circuit at a time through each stat to the motorised valve brown wire
do one circuit at a time with one link and see if you get 240v at the neutral
do this with the live disconnected from the terminal box upstairs
which live would that be the one from the fused spur or the boiler
it could be a faulty motorised valve motor, but we would have found that when disconnecting the browns upstairs
no, looking at the diagram
the ones the greys are connected to
i have one grey connected to live terminal and the other to the common cylinder stat
Both greys and oranges should be connected together - look at the diagram
The greys are the live feed to the microswitches
The orange feed the pump and boiler when opened
This could be the problem.......
Can you print the drawing and work from it?
An S plan is wired in parallel
Heating live to room stat to motorised valve brown
Water live to cyl stat to motorised valve brown
Greys together to live
Oranges together to pump and boiler live
Neutrals ALL together
this is how the system has been on since the electrician messed up and it did work for 24 hours
No heating on to grey heating valve?
ok will go and swap few wires and see lol
Greys are permanently live, even with the clock off
Looking at it, that is the only wrong wire, grey into L
well that didnt work either lol
still getting permanant live down the neutrals
At least its wired right now, can you go through the drawing I sent you one wire at a time, although the book is nearly right.
Is the clock back on?
Ok, clock off and link between live and 3
You should only have a live to the cylinder stat, then out to the motor on the hw mot valve
Live to the greys but not on the orange if the valve does not open
every terminal in block is now live apart from earth
Can you disconnect the live that comes from the cyl stat and see what is still live?
live and 3 still linked and remains live, two greys are live and the main live in thats all that is live at present
that is correct
so do you have a problem with the motorised valve if you reconnect it?
reconnect what? the valve is still connected
is the valve open?
hw or ch
both in auto position
hw because you have linked L and 3 in the programmer
is the N still reading 240V?
can you push the lever on the valve - is it slack or tight?
ok, so closed
do you have 240V across the brown and blue to the valve?
the multi meter not working all we have is power to the mains live and to the hot water link
so no power upstairs through the cylinder thermostat to the motor
no because we disconnected the cylinder stat live as you suggested
I meant upstairs after the stat - can you reconnect and follow the power through the stat but leave the motorised valve disconnected
we just need to make sure the power gets upstairs first
which colour wire do we disconnect from the motorised valve
that is the one that makes the motor turn and the valve open
so recconect the cylinder stat brown to hw and disconnect hw brown
disconnect brown to HW motorised valve
now have power to terminal 3,6 8 on the terminal block on your diagram
you gonna tell me the valve broke now?
how is the neutral?
ok, reconnect the brown to the motorised valve and tell me if it opens?
no it dont open but i now have live at all terminal apart from the earth
F**ked valve then.
Leave it disconnected and then link L and 4 downstairs and follow the heating through to the valve
room stat flashing, and slight noise from valve sounded like motor trying to turn, neutral back to live
Surely not 2 knackered valves?
my thinking lol, would have been cheaper to buy new system at this rate
you can buy a new S plan kit for about £120
do you need heating and hot water?
we sold the house just want it working we move out in 3 weeks lol been here 7 years and had no issues lol
would be nice, you got some spare not had more than 24 hours since last wednesday
if you open each motorised valve by latching it
do i need to disconect both brown from each valve
then latch them manually
now have live in 1,2,4,5,10
is the pump and boiler running?
Live at 2??????
yes neutral live again room stat lit up and all live in stat
no pump and boiler not running
Are you able to disconnect one at a time until it kills the power at 2 and see where it is coming from?
This is stopping the boiler firing
what do i need to disconnect one at a time
the neutrals, while it is fault we need to trace where the power is coming from to identify the faulty part/wiring
Take one out and check for power, if still live then replace it and remove another
okay wont be long
remove neutral from terminal block from room stat and now neutrals are neutral however put the tester on the neutral on the room stat itself and power from the actual room stat
and you are sure it is wired correctly - do you want to check the blue wire at the stat?
all three terminal at the stat are showing live, wired up according to plan on new stat
you dont say
perhaps the wiring is not continuous throughout?
should be has been working for seven years and none of it has been changed
ok, leave the neutral disconnected and see if you can get the pump and boiler running by linking the ornage and grey
with the 2 valve open manually
both oranges should be together
both greys should be together
just link the 2 connections
(listening quietly for the bang....)
do we leave the other lives in situ, ie the pump and boiler and the live in from mains
(still no bang!)
still doing it lol
hope you live far enough away lol
near northampton so shouldnt hear it lol
Perhaps a loud bang?
no bang and boiler fired up lol
What to do now......
1. Turn the boiler on and off at the fused spur
2. Always leave the heating valve open
3. Open and close the heating valve manually as you need heating
4. Use the boiler thermostat to control the temperature of your hot water
5. Move out!
6. Sack the electrician
7. Shoot the person who wrote that book!
Sorry 2. Always leave the hot water valve open
we will but we cant leave it like this for good, so what needs replacing and it was Ray Ward
Hard to tell
It could be a wiring fault as well as the hot water motorised valve
You also have a faulty room stat - or wiring to it
on the connecter block within the boiler you have a pump live, neutral then an on terminal, there was a twin flex connected in the on connected to a bakerlight junction block assumed going upstairs to main junction box this has been an issue and confused us as to why it was linked this way
This means that you have a pump overrun and the pump must be wired directly to the boiler
You should have a N connection
a permanent L connection
a switched L connection
and a Pump Live connection?
it wasnt there originally someone put that in themselves before we moved in
didn't you say you were moving....
yes but cant leave it like this
I think the simplest thing to do would be rewire it
Use some 4 core cable from the programmer in 1 piece - no joints
3 core for the room stat
2 core for the cylinder stat
and the junction box upstairs
Should cost you about £60
Then leave the 2 port valves disconnected and wire one at a time and see what happens
do you want to take the wife shopping saturday in wellingborough lol
It will be cheaper than getting you crap electrician to do it!
Use the diagram I sent you and it should take you about 4 hours
Ignore the wiring for the pump - wire it straight to the boiler - although I have never had a problem with the boiler wired directly as an S plan, just manufacturer's recommendations
ok thankyou so much really appreciate it, you have been the only person to be of any help, will have a go at the weekend and see what we can do. many many thanks again.
Thanks for making my head hurt!
our has done for a week now lol
Come back if you need me again
Thanks we will x
By the way this is the wife not hubby lol
That's why it is polite.....
Tell him to get it fixed - NOW!
That's how it works in our (my) house....
Maybe thanks again, speak soon lol, i will lol