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Nathan
Nathan, Engineer
Category: Printers
Satisfied Customers: 24500
Experience:  Computer networking/repair. 20+ years experience printer repair
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Hi I have a printer I took the heads out and spilt cleaner

Resolved Question:

Hi I have a printer I took the heads out and spilt cleaner on the head curitboard
the engineer came oit said I jad blown a fuse I wathed him test the fuses and capasitors and it was the fuse that was blown so insteadcof replaceimg thw fuse on the mainboard he soldered a wire over the fuse which over heated the capasitor .and maybe blown the main board which costs 4k and a new head a 450 the printer costs 16k who it as fault as he is denying it was what he did
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Printers
Expert:  Nathan replied 3 years ago.

Nathan :

 


Hello, I’m Nathan, and I’ll be assisting you today. My livelihood depends on your positive feedback, so your satisfaction is my highest priority.

Nathan :

Hi there, sorry to hear you're having trouble,

Nathan :

I can advise you on this from a technical perspective (as a printer expert), but not from a legal perspective, as I am not an attorney.

Nathan :

What the tech did is a standard practice as a diagnostic step only. It is not meant to be done as a long term fix, as the fuse is there for a reason.

Nathan :

If the system overheated and blew even briefly in testing after he jumpered that fuse, then there was deeper damage in the system to begin with, likely a short from the liquid cleaner still in contact with some of the components.

Nathan :

Now if it worked normally for some time after his work and then failed, I would hold him responsible, as he should have only jumpered the fuse briefly to test what other components needed service, and then moved on to replacing the fuse as well as the other parts.

Nathan :

I would suggest that if you have continued issues with him and cannot come to an agreement about the price of repairs, that you contact Roland directly, and let them know of his actions. While he may be self employed, they do have some power in blacklisting him from future recommendations and referrals, or to withhold future trainings and certifications from him, if he is not meeting their standards of work.

Customer:

Hi Nathan he replaced the printheadcwith a different one di test prints for about an hour .I did a print job to test it was printing ok .and we went home the next day I did my jibs printing all day and left the printer printing over night.in the morning I took that print job of the printer getting ready for the morning prints was cleaning some materials and could smell electronic burning after checking everything I went to the printer smelt strognervthere so I turned it off .and rang the engineer

Nathan :

Thanks for the info.

Nathan :

From what you have described, there are still several possible causes, but I would lean toward blaming him, if he left that jumper in place.

Customer:

Nathan this is some of the text hes sent me today admiting then denying

Customer:

You really don't think that is my fault because it isn't. That chip is why the fuse went in the first place, so forget any idea of trying to pin it on me mateYour barking up the wrong tree john, I tried to fix your machine cheaply for you. When it hasn't worked because there is a deeper problem than I could foresee you expect me to pay for your machine? You are kidding youself john, the answer is 100% NORemember also that you had heads out, soaked them in solvent, put them back in, messed around.....you must think I am a fool to think you can get me to pay for your mistakes john. I have always looked after you and you turn on me when I tried to help you. So if you want it fixed, I'll fix it for you no problem. Head+Board and labourAnd also threaten me? I am actually shocked by that thats usung the words you said tinaSo to complete my view, you know a repair on a mainboard can't be guaranteed as no one can know the full extent of any damage. If the repaired mainboard fails its because there is a deeper problem, most likely associated to you messing about and not me. So I do not take any responsibilty for what you have done yourself and take offence to being accused and taken for a mugIf you want it sorted, I think the mainboard is around £1000+vat, new heads around £550+vat and then labour+vat. All those prices are you supplying partsAs well as that, I could have looked at this for you and was happy to and you f**ked me about,.......no one would look after you the way I have done.

Nathan :

He does have some legitimate points,

Nathan :

it really is not possible to know the extent of any damage when doing repairs on a main board in these machines

Nathan :

and there is a good chance that components were damaged by the solvent spill,

Nathan :

However he should not have left that jumper in place

Nathan :

but that jumper is not guaranteed to cause these issues either it could work fine for ages in that state. I think there is probably equal responsibility on both sides, and what I would ask of him is that he do the labor for free if you supply the parts. I don't think you can reasonably expect him to cover the cost of the parts.

Nathan :

If nothing else look into your insurance policy and see if they will cover this in any way, even simply considering it to be accidental damage.

Customer:

And theres more .he has replaced afuse on that mainboard two years ago with afuse not a wire

Nathan :

He replaced the fuse with another fuse, or with a wire?

Customer:

Yes a new one then

Nathan :

I wouldn't consider repairs from 2 years ago to play into this. These machines frequently need repairs and upkeep, and if an IC or component on the main board was damaged by liquid, it could easily back feed and short out other components, including fuses. Truth be told, even if he had put in a new fuse instead of a wire jumper, it would probably still have blown the new fuse and still caused all the other damage

Nathan :

This is a certainly a difficult situation. He is certainly to blame for leaving a temporary testing measure in place as a fix, which is something any tech should know better, but I don't think it's likely that this one misstep caused all of the damage that has happened.

Customer:

And on this occassion he said he carnt find a plastic bag with his gloves thatvhad hi fuses in .he went to his car camr back with a bag I had my back to him while I was doing some design work on computer dint look at was he was doing then printer was working

Customer:

No it was a spil on the printhead curcit

Nathan :

Okay so the spill was on the head board, not on the main board. That can still cause this damage though, as a short in the head causes excessive voltage to back feed to the logic (main) board, resulting in other parts failing.

Customer:

How can I attach a pic??

Nathan :

There is the little paperclip icon above our chat window you can use to send me a pic

Customer:

Carnt get it to work

Nathan :

You can try a file sharing site and send me the link.

Nathan :

Really though, I'm not sure what a picture will accomplish. I'm not going to be able to tell anything specific without hands on diagnostics.

Nathan :

For the level and scope of this type of chat support

Nathan :

and based on the information you've told me,

Customer:

Ill do that five mins

Nathan :

I can only agree with you that the tech did indeed make some mistakes in using a permanent jumper

Nathan :

but I will also tell you as a tech that I don't feel he is fully responsible for the current extent of the damage, which was likely caused by a defective or damaged head backfeeding

Nathan :

In my opinion, you both have some fault in this issue. If I were the tech doing this job, in my mind it would be reasonable that you'd pay for the parts and I'd do the labor for no cost to install the parts.

Nathan :

For a definitive opinion about the liability here, I think you'd have to ask an attorney

Nathan :

and even then, you'd likely end up going to court over the issue and spending far more in the long run trying to get something out of the tech's liability insurance

Customer:

I know Nthan im not playing ignorant but like you said fuses are there to stop over loads

Nathan :

The fuses are there to stop overcurrent coming in from the power supply to protect the main board

Nathan :

they are at the beginning of the circuit

Nathan :

It sounds like the damage you've got is downstream of the power supply, meaning backfed from the damaged head board.

Nathan :

The fuse wouldn't have given any protection there, as those other components would have already failed, and there are other diodes that keep the voltage from going backwards and ever hitting that fuse or power supply in the first place.

Nathan :

That is my assumption anyway, after you mentioned the bit about the head board. I was initially thinking it was the main board where the spill occured

Customer:

But when you see this wire its like a sausage

Nathan :

Okay, well go ahead and send a pic if you can

Nathan :

what I would consider a more definitive test, is if anything before the fuse is damaged. If it is, he should be liable for that. Anything after the fuse would have been damaged regardless. Does that make sense?

Customer:

https://db.tt/OulsvbJI

Nathan :

I see your dropbox,

Nathan :

what image?

Nathan :

I only see some .eps banner files

Customer:

Its a picture called outlook, stay in that folder its a jpej

Nathan :

ok

Customer:

https://db.tt/gXdtJXLr

Nathan :

I see the wire

Nathan :

But I'm not seeing any obvious damage in the area near it though that would indicate that having the jumper in place contributed. It is possible, but I can't say with certainty.

Customer:

Its like a double wire those two fuses are one for each printhead and the black one thats burnt out there is three one for each printhead and one for the board I think

Customer:

Look at the black one with the white buble burn and the crack it was ok when he was testing I was there

Nathan :

I see the double wire, but it's only jumping one fuse, not 2, right?

Customer:

If you download pic and zoom in you can see it clearly

Nathan :

I did, and it looks to me like it's jumping just the fuse on the left, not touching the right. Not sure why he used double wire, other than maybe easier to solder in and hold on to

Customer:

Nathan I didn't have insurance or a maintenance contract but I will in future ..what shall I do and where to go

Nathan :

You mean to get either of those?

Nathan :

I'd suggest contacting Roland direct, via your local dealer/distributor, they can advise on service contracts, if your machine is eligible (it may not be, depending on model/age)

Customer:

More the maintenance contract

Nathan :

When I meant insurance, I meant like business liability insurance.

Customer:

Liability dosent cover this ..?

Nathan :

Not likely, no, but it wouldn't hurt to ask. If it is the result of accidental damage (meaning that you accidentally spilled and harmed the machine), not just age related failure or wear and tear.

Nathan :

It really depends on your policy. I've seen similar accidental damage issues covered, but it may not be worth it even if they will, after considering deductibles, rate increases, etc

Nathan :

You'll probably just have to end up eating the cost in this case, then look to a good service contract for future coverage

Nathan :

Or maybe you're better off trading this machine in toward a new one, if you can get some decent value out of it. A dealer probably wouldn't mind taking it on trade even in current state, because they can fix them more cheaply than you can.

Customer:

Ok ill have it fixed send him the invoice for it wait 40 days if he dosent pay send it to court

Customer:

Giving him a ccj and get my money back from the court sherrifs

Nathan :

I would try at least asking again if he'll go in on it with you, or do the labor for free at least. It isn't likely he will pay, and I'm not confident a court (who has no knowledge or understanding of this equipment, and I don't think a transcript of our chat will hold up as evidence) would rule in your favor. They may, but if you lose, you might be on the hook for his legal fees as well. I would do everything possible to work it out with him directly, as any forcible options aren't going to work out well for anyone in the end.

Customer:

No in one of he's text he says I've got a mainboard at home he could fit I didnt metion anything about fuses until he said I hope your not sayingvits anything I've done john

Nathan :

Oh okay

Nathan :

well you may have additional evidence for the courts, if it gets to that then.

Customer:

Hes send me about ten messages all in consession without a relpy from me

Nathan :

I was just suggesting to avoid that path, if possible, it's hard on everyone, including you. I'm sure you would rather be workign on your business than working on a court case.

Customer:

Ok I understand I need a mediator or someone that can settle this .Can u suggest anyone

Nathan :

I really can't. I'm in the US, and I'm not a legal expert here, let alone in the UK. I really don't know where you would go for that,

Nathan :

I would suggest looking to your local bar/barrister association, they usually have some type of directory for these sorts of services

Nathan :

There is a legal category here on justanswer, if you wish to post a new question to them under the UK law area, I'm sure one of the experts there can help you find an appropriate mediator service.

Nathan :

I wish you the best of luck, whatever route you choose to pursue.

Customer:

How can I get a transcript from this chat?

Nathan :

If you have any other questions, just let me know. Otherwise, please do remember to rate my service prior to logging off, hopefully I have earned an “excellent”.

Following your rating, this chat will convert to a standard web page, which you can then save, print, etc I would also respectfully XXXXX XXXXX consider a bonus/tip, simply because you made your initial request for low urgency and low detail - such a question is typically valued appropriately for a very basic bit of information and about 15 minutes of expert time - I've been with you here for about 2.5 hours now discussing the issue.

I also invite you to contact me directly with any future support needs at http://www.justanswer.com/electronics/expert-p0llinate/


 


Thank you, XXXXX XXXXX a good day,


Nathan

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