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Joshua
Joshua, Lawyer
Category: Property Law
Satisfied Customers: 25358
Experience:  LL.B (Hons), Higher Prof. Dip. Law & Practice
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Fin Hall Leasehold & Fin Hall Management Ltd

Customer Question

Hope you can help!

Re: Fin Hall Leasehold & Fin Hall Management Ltd - History

We live in Fin Hall which was converted into 10 apartments some 20 years ago. There are ten leaseholders (999 year lease) and each leaseholder owns one share in the FH Management Company Ltd - 10 in total.

The current FH Company Ltd set up is - Three shareholder directors CM, FM, CK and an external management company called OBM Ltd to help manage the Hall under direction of the three directors. OBM has not performed well, but this is another matter.

The five (50%) west facing apartments have direct access to the main lawn via their rear doors. They each have constructed over the years a private patio (permission granted by various FH Management) laid on top of communal ground. Each of the patio's houses private garden furniture.

The five (50%) east facing apartments do not have any direct access to the west facing lawn.

Technically speaking, the east facing residents could use the west facing patios, but I don't think this would go down very well with the west facing residents.

The Problem:

In June 2009 I proposed in writing with photographs to the 10 shareholders to buy a communal gazebo and furniture, and erect this on the west lawn under a beech tree which was the most discreet position. There were six in favour of the project, 3 with no objections and one did not reply. We decided to privately fund the project and the six paid about £240 each. It was passed by two of the three directors at the time as one was on holiday. Everything ran very smoothly for the first two years and we all (including non funders) enjoyed impromptu drinks and parties in and around the gazebo.

Then suddenly in January 2011 one of the funding members (FM) decided he wanted the gazebo moved. We have no idea why he decided on this stance, apart from he can see it from his rear windows - The gazebo is situated 24 metres away on the perimeter boundary. He spends approx 8 months in Cyprus / USA, and is now a director of FH by some "tricky" moves by previous directors as nobody really wants the job of being a director of FH Management Ltd.

In order to prevent conflict in summer 2012 we trialed having a table cover instead of a gazebo, but this was unsuccessful.

At the AGM in November 2011 the contentious gazebo problem was brought to a head and the shareholders voted 7/1 in favour of having a gazebo, and that possibly a new position could be found. There were 3 positions suggested including the original which was the most recommended in the vote. At a subsequent Board Meeting ( six then - but three have since resigned ) they overturned the shareholders vote of having a gazebo by 3 to 2 with one abstention - Shenanigans !

The majority of shareholders would like to have the gazebo reinstated.

Kindly note the following:

1. Previous general legal advice - He (FM) has a right to light but not to a view.

2. It is 24 metres away from his rear windows on the boundary fence.

3. He seems to be relying on " The Tenants Covenants with the Landlord "

3.18 - not to do or bring or allow to remain upon the Premises anything that may be or become or cause a nuisance annoyance disturbance or inconvenience injury or damage to the Landlord and the Company or the owners or occupiers of other flats in the building or adjacent or neighbouring premises.

NB: The gazebo members have never received any complaints from any shareholder regarding the gazebo being untidy or noisy.

4. Under Rules Relating to Fin Hall :

4:3 - walking on flower beds and / or any activity that may cause damage to plants trees the lawn or garden implements or fixtures.

I would appreciate your advice and cause of action.

Regards Peter

PS: Should you wish photographs - please let me know
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Property Law
Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 4 years ago.
Hello Peter,

I've been working hard to find a Professional to assist you with your question, but sometimes finding the right Professional can take a little longer than expected.

I wonder whether you're ok with continuing to wait for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will continue my search. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you.

Thank you!
Nicola
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Please continue Nicola


 


Regards Peter


 

Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 4 years ago.
Hello,

We will continue to look for a Professional to assist you.

Thank you for your patience,
Nicola
Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 4 years ago.
Hello,

I apologize as we have not yet been able to find a Professional to assist you. Do you wish for me to continue to search for someone to assist you or would you like for us to close your question at this time?

Thank you for your patience,
Nicola
Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 4 years ago.
Hello,

Please understand it is rare for us not to be able to find the right Professional to assist our customers. We can either return your good faith deposit to the original funding source, or we can keep your deposit on your account here for future questions.

Please let me know how you wish to proceed and again I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

I hope you will give JustAnswer a try again in the future,
Nicola
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Dear Nicola


 


Thanks for the above.


 


Is there any particular reason why we have failed to find an expert to answer my query /problem.


 


Regards Peter

Expert:  Joshua replied 4 years ago.
  1. Thanks for your question. Please kindly RATE my answer when you are satisfied

I specialise in Landlord and Tenant law and will be pleased to look at this for you.

  1. Do you know what provision if any there is in your leases in respectof the right to use communal gorunds? Do youhave the exact wording of any such provision?
  2. For the avoidance of any doubt was this individual one of the individuals that initially agreed to the gazebo and now he has changed his mind? If so do you have evidence of this in writing or from company minutes?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

  1. Thanks for your question. Please kindly RATE my answer when you are satisfied



I specialise in Landlord and Tenant law and will be pleased to look at this for you.



  1. 1. Do you know what provision if any there is in your leases in respect of the right to use communal grounds? Do you have the exact wording of any such provision?


See: Points 1, 2, Point 3 - 3:18 and 4 - 4:3 above



  1. 2. For the avoidance of any doubt was this individual one of the individuals that initially agreed to the gazebo and now he has changed his mind?


Yes he (FM) was one of the six individuals who funded the project, and now has changed his mind.


He sent me an email congratulating me on the gazebo project, and also bought a lamp 2 months after the gazebo was erected from his own money.



  1. If so do you have evidence of this in writing or from company minutes?


I have a copy of a cheque, and emails from me as a shareholder explaining in full how the gazebo project will work and be funded. There are no company minutes at the time regarding the gazebo.


However, at the company AGM on 22/11/2011 when we discussed the gazebo contentious issue the Chairman PG clearly stated that the gazebo was given consent (in 2009) by the Directors (PG & AP - IK was away on holiday) to be in the garden and in the position it is in.


Should you require any further information, please let me know.


Regards Peter

Expert:  Joshua replied 4 years ago.
Thanks. Re query 1, thanks for your reply. I did read your original question thoroughly. To clarify what I was rather hoping for is if you had a copy of the exact wording of the lease in respect of any rights granted fo the communal grounds - this would normally be included in the "easements granted" section along the lines of a right to enjoy the communal gardens or words to that effect. Do you have the exact wording? If not it is not critical - it would just be very useful.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Josh


 


Do you have an email address as I can send you the following:


 


1. Rules Relating to Fin Hall - 3 pages


 


2. The Lease - 17 pages in total - split as follows;


 


a: Table of Contents


b. The Tenant's covenants


c. The Landlord's covenants


d. The Company's covenants


 


Regards Peter

Expert:  Joshua replied 4 years ago.
Unfortunately we have to communicate through this site rather than by email under site rules. You can attach the leas if a pdf by using the paperclip. If not I can proceed without this information but in slightly more generalised terms to cover both possibilities so you can look at your lease later?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.


Josh

 

How do you use the paperclip to attach pdfs -

 

Error message says "you are not connected to the internet"

 

Regards

 

Have tried to access just answer via google chrome rather than AOL - but all my old questions are there apart from the question we are dealing with at the moment ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I seem to have two accounts ?? Please advise

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Josh


 


How do you use the paperclip to attach pdfs -


 


Error message says "you are not connected to the internet"


 


Regards


 


Have tried to access just answer via google chrome rather than AOL - but all my old questions are there apart from the question we are dealing with at the moment ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I seem to have two accounts ?? Please advise

Expert:  Joshua replied 4 years ago.
I'm sorry if you are experiencing any problems. I'm also sorry about the delay in reverting to you - I have been away for the Easter weekend in an area which has had no signal. I will ask customer service is to contact you to try to assist you with attaching a PDF
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Thanks


 


Regards Peter

Expert:  Joshua replied 4 years ago.
Have customer services contacted you? I did ask them to...
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

No - not yet - Can you chace them up please


 


Regards Peter

Expert:  Joshua replied 4 years ago.
Shall do...
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Dear XXXXX


 


I have spoken to customer support and I have sent the two files to them for them to forward to you. Ref Ed - #JFT-247-22245


 


Regards Peter

Expert:  Joshua replied 4 years ago.
Thanks. I haven't had them yet but will come back to you as soon as they send them on
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

 


Dear XXXXX


 


 


 


I have spoken to customer support and I have sent the two files to them for them to forward to you. Ref Ed - #JFT-247-22245


 


 


 


Regards Peter


 


PS Have you receieved these yet??

Expert:  Joshua replied 4 years ago.
I am afraid I have received nothing from them at all. Perhaps you could chase up? Unfortunatley I am due to be away for a couple of weeks though I may be able to check in from time to time.

I am really sorry about the difficultlies you are encountering.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Josh


 


I have chased them up for a third time - the support team seem to be pretty useless - too busy talking about what they did last night or polishing their nails rather than the job in hand.


 


I will try and use the paper clip again and hope it works


 


Regards Peter


 


Tried send Rules 3 pages


Lease - 18 pages


Same problem wont upload - I think your software people need a kick up the backside as well.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.


Josh


 


Your support has suggested to use Media Fire.Com which is a hosting site.


 


I have uploaded the files and here are the links to the two files. If they don't view immediately, come out of the application and try it again - This is what I had to do to check that it was working OK.


 


Rules and Regulations Pages 1 to 3


 




Lease Pages 1 to 17 and also Rules Pages 1 to 3 again




Please confirm that you have been able to view the files.


Regards Peter


PS: Question opened on 19/3/2013 - 4 weeks ago today - and we are no further forward.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.


Josh


 


Did you view the files via the links I sent.


 


Regards Peter

Customer: replied 4 years ago.


Josh


 


 


Did you view the files via the links I sent.


 


 


 


Regards Peter

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Relist: No answer yet.
Still have not received any advice even though the original question was dated 19/3/2013.

Please advise.

Regards Peter
Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 4 years ago.
Hello Peter,

I'm afraid Josh-2010 is away for a few days. He should contact you on his return.

Thank you for your patience,
Nicola
Expert:  Joshua replied 4 years ago.
Hello
I am sorry for the extended delay in reverting to you. I have been away. Having returned I have had the opportunity to review the lease and the rules you havge kindly sent thank you. I believe I have all the information I need. May I continue to assist you with this - I am conscious that it is some time since you asked your question?

Would you confirm you would still like to proceed whereupon I shall revert to you.

Best wishes
Customer: replied 4 years ago.


Dear Josh


 


Yes please.


 


Do you have the links in order to read the lease and rules.


 


Regards Peter

Expert:  Joshua replied 4 years ago.
Thanks. Yes I have read both the lease and the rules.

There is no evidence that there is a right to use and enjoy the open areas of the estate in the lease which means that the tenant who is now objecting cannot argue that the gazebo is violating a legal right over the area. His only rights to use the open areas operate from the rules and regulations that have been issued by the landlord company which would appear to operate as a licence - i.e. can be altered or withdrawn.

In addition (though it is unnecessary in light of the above) given that there is evidence he consented to the gaxebo personally there is the added defence of estoppel - that he consented and so he cannot now subsequently ask for its removal on the basis that the landlord company relied on his consent to its detriment.

Accordingly I cannot see an obvious basis on which he can request the removal of the gazebo and you would appear to have the above defences to any attempt by him to do so.

Does the above answer all your questions or is there anything I can clarify or help with any further?

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