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LondonlawyerJ, Solicitor
Category: Property Law
Satisfied Customers: 775
Experience:  Experienced solicitor
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Should I pay a PCN issued for parking on our own demised premises

Resolved Question:

Should I pay a PCN issued for parking on our own demised premises but failing to display a Permit. And if not, how should I proceed?


Two days ago I found a PCN issued by a private parking enforcement company LPP Ltd. on my vehicle. Parking enforcement arrangements for the underground car park had been made (and adequately announced by notice) by the Management Company of our shared freehold. Permits have been sent out via mail to be displayed inside the vehicle.

Leaseholder with a share of the Freehold is my sister and I am her tenant while she lives abroad. Mail addressed to her is not always opened by me, so the Permit remained unopened and was not displayed for this reason, though this detail is in my view irrelevant for the overarching question below.

My vehicle was rightfully parked within the confines of the bay assigned to our flat. I wish to make an appeal of course and would like to discourage the private enforcer in this very first instance from further pursing the matter. So I am looking to include the appropriate wording to the desired effect. Or do I even have to appeal?

I have not yet received a "Notice to Keeper", but with a foreign registration this might complicate matters. If so, I would prefer to make an immediate appeal if this is at all advisable.


I have the following rather connected questions in this regard:

1. Is failing to display a Permit in itself chargeable at £100, or is this amount disproportionate to the alleged offence, or loss if you wish to call it that?

2. Is not instead the unauthorised parking on a place which does not belong to the driver/keeper a chargeable offence (which I would understand)?

3. Not having been consulted nor agreeing (implicitly or explicitly) to the measures put in place, does my sister have any binding contract with the Management Company in this regard, and...

4. There potentially being no binding contract with the Management Company, does the private parking enforcement company have any right to impose and enforce fines if correctly parked on my space?

I asked my father to consult the lease, as he is safekeeping it for my sister. He copied the relevant passages in an email, but more could be obtained if necessary:

"Demised premises. Car Park Space Number shown edged red on plan 1 annexed hereto and more particularly described in Clause 2.01 thereof.".


"Together with 2.01.1 The right in common with the Lessor the Company and all persons authorized by them and with the lessees of the other car parking specs to use for the purposes only of pedestrian access to and egress from the Demised Premises the entrance halls staircases and landings in or outside the Building and such of the Common Parts as provide access to the Car Park and the Demised Premises and to use for the purpose of vehicular access to and egress from the demised Premises the ramps leading to the Car Park".

Thank you in advance for your help with this.

On a side note...

On the reverse of the PCN it states under "Appeals" inter alia:

"All Parking Charge cases are placed on hold upon receipt of a written appeal. Any driver appealing against a Parking Charge Notice within 14 days from the date of issue will be given the opportunity to provide payment at the reduced amount in the event that their appeal is unsuccessful. You should be aware that any driver lodging an appeal later than 9 days from the date of issue will be liable for the full amount in the event that their appeal is unsuccessful."

So which is it, 14 days or 9 days? Are these people beginners?
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Property Law
Expert:  LondonlawyerJ replied 2 years ago.

LondonlawyerJ :

Hello I am a solicitor withover 15 years experience I will try to help you with this.


Thank you, XXXXX XXXXX your help.

LondonlawyerJ :

Set out below is some general stuff on private parking fines

LondonlawyerJ :

Check your ticket carefully to see if the ticket has been issued by the police or local authority. If not, then it is likely to be a private car parking company issuing the ticket. The ticket will say if it is issued by the police or a local authority. Private companies are very careful to make their tickets look as if they are from these bodies. Assuming that we are dealing with a private sector parking charge then the following applies.

The charge is not a fine. What the ticket represents is a demand for payment of compensation for an alleged breach of contract. In law someone claiming compensation will only be entitled to recover their actual losses arising from the breach of the contract. This is very unlikely to be anywhere near the amount demanded from you.

In order to be able to claim any compensation from you the company must be able to demonstrate that there was a contract. This requires there to be prominent signs setting out the terms and conditions including those for charges.

They must also be able to demonstrate that they suffered loss and what the level of that loss is.

The parking company is also probably not the land owner and if they seek to enforce this they will at some point have to prove their right to enforce (they may set out the basis of their right on the ticket or the signs).

Some advisers are of the view that the best thing to do is to totally ignore the ticket and see what steps the company takes. Enforcing these charges is an expensive and time consuming business and it may be that the response to your disdainful silence is that they simply write off the alleged debt.

This may lead to a further letter and perhaps threats from their legal enforcers.

If you wish to respond either to the ticket itself or to a subsequent letter if one arrives then your letter should include the following:

- Date and place of alleged contravention, the ticket number and your registration number

- That you refuse to pay.

- Why you refuse to pay , this may include some of the following easons:

#the contravention did not occur, (eg their employee got it wrong and refer to evidence)

#there was insufficient signage, attach photographs to support your point. Stating that in the absence of sufficient signage there is no contract between you and the land owner and therefore there is no question of any money being owed by you to them.

# XXXXX circumstances. Eg that you accept you were parked in contravention of an agreement but there was a good reason for it )eg collecting/delivery an ill child perhaps)

# XXXXX parked on their land.

# the ticket was issued before the time allowed to pay has elapsed.

#any other reasons


And always argue that

# The fee is disproportionate, your letter should include something similar to the paragraph set out below but tailored to your exact needs.

According to the Unfair Consumer Contract Regulations, parking charges on private land must not exceed the cost to the landowner during the period the motorist is parked there. The principals of contract law also preclude you from claiming compensation for losses you have not suffered. In my case, the £xx charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner of ( Insert some figures. If the cost of parking is £2.00 per hour then an over stay of 15 minutes may be worth 50p + a good will contribution to their admin costs of say £2 if you are feeling generous). You could then make an offer in line with your estimate of their losses to settle the dispute.

- Finally tell them this is your final correspondence and you will not respond until they have answered all you points.

Hopefully this will be the end of the matter but if it is not then ultimately one of 3 things will happen. The parking company will continue to threaten but give up in the end, you can start an appeal at POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals) ( or the company can start a claim in the small claims court against you.

You can bring an appeal using the arguments set out above or you can defend the claim in the same way.

The reality is that, faced with an informed and unintimidated person the company who are essentially involved in trying to intimidate money out of you may well give up realising that it is not cost effective to go after you when there are so many other people who will simply pay up.



LondonlawyerJ :

Applying this to your questions:

LondonlawyerJ :

1 They can try to charge you for this but bear in mind that all they are entitled to is compensation for losses they have suffered. It seems that they have suffered no loss at all and so should not be able to charge for this. This is not an offence. (ie a crime it is a claim for payment for use of land).

LondonlawyerJ :

2 This seems to be a rhetorical question but we are no talking about offences here.

LondonlawyerJ :

3 This will depend on the rules and constitution of the Management Company.

LondonlawyerJ :

It is my view that this charge is unenforceable. Their claim amounts to a claim fro compenstaio fro yu parking in our own parking spot. It is absurd.You may think that the right thing to do is to write to them "apealing" their ticket and using the letter template set out above.

LondonlawyerJ :

I hope this answer is helpful but please feel free to ask further questions.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Thank you, XXXXX XXXXX helps me understand my position. I did feel angry and you hit the nail on the head with "It is absurd."


If you allow, I will prepare my appeal based on relevant parts of your template and quickly run it by you.


But generally, is there a contract between me and the private parking enforcer just because they put a sign up? The signs ARE prominent enough, I must say. They are worded: "Permit Parking Only". Is that not a unilateral attempt to create a contract without the counterpart's agreement? Did I misunderstand some fundamental aspects of the law? If so, I will be putting a few signs up myself in the future.


I am even tempted to notify the parking enforcement company that any speculative invoices addressed to me will incur £150 for administrative charges and legal advice in return. I am also tempted to charge them on this first instance. Do I have any legal standing?


And finally, the half-yearly rent for the space is £25. Does this mean the maximum losses incurred were 50/365 = £0.14 per day, as we are the owners and can determine the reasonable loss? There was no loss to the community. And the losses incurred were actually my own, for standing on my own space?

Expert:  LondonlawyerJ replied 2 years ago.
It is highly debatable whether there is a contract the problem with it being whether you have accepted the offer they made. I think it is arguable that there is no contract. #

If you want to threaten the parking company with the charges you suggest that is up to you but in law the is no more basis for those claims than there is for the parking company charges.

Your last question demonstrates the oddness of their claim against you very well.
LondonlawyerJ, Solicitor
Category: Property Law
Satisfied Customers: 775
Experience: Experienced solicitor
LondonlawyerJ and 2 other Property Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Dear LondonlawyerJ,


apologies for the delayed rating. You have already helped me tremendously, but I wanted to run this letter by you, and did not know if a rating closed the conversation. I would understand if you felt this exceeded the normal scope and would then instead rate you immediately.


I am not aware if there a possibility of posting such a text privately.


Best Regards



Expert:  LondonlawyerJ replied 2 years ago.

Posting a rating will not close the question and I will continue to answer further questions.

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