Hello, I am Rafael. Thanks for asking your question - I'm here to support you. (Information posted here is not private or confidential but public).
I am very sorry to know about this overwhelming reality you and your children have been undergoing.
Could you please tell me which were the core issues you had before you found out about his infidelity?
You said once he decided to come back because of your children begging him to do so, he got back to his old self like if nothing has changed, and that also he neglects all of you, being cold, not really a loving father nor husband, right?
Yes he seems to want to change and he is remorseful but his attitude towards me stinks and I am at my wits end my nerves are shot and I am getting resentful at him and his psychotherapist what do I do ?
Did he truly apologized for his infidelity and talked with you about the core issues undermining your marriage?
First you need to understand that you are facing a really traumatic crisis in your lives, and that it would take time for you to heal from it, and that there is nothing that would ensure you would totally heal nor that your marriage would be able to grow from it, since both of you would need not only to acknowledge the core marital issues, but to show real effort and commitment working on it, and you said he is not showing through his actions even necessary caring, affection nior support towards you, but it seems he is even retaliating because of you finding out about his affair.
Yes we did but I found out later on that he had lied or distorted the truth and still kept a copy of the memory card even though I was supposed to have had the only copy, she said she didn't have any copies and I believe her but there have been so many lies
Psychotherapy should be the ideal source of support for a person to rehabilitate from mental health problems like depression, and and to learn to effectively cope with any life issue or challenge, but it could only work if the person is willing to make these changes, and obviously if the therapist is competent and ethical,
He keeps telling me he is really ashamed cos it wasn't just the fling it was on line adult dating sites advertising for 3 domes with this woman
I am sorry to know that, then there is no way you could truly trust him without self-sabotaging, it would be very naive or even foolish to trust him after he has shown this pattern of dishonesty and the consistent actions a really caring and responsible husband and an parent would present if wanting to heal and protect marriage and family.
I can see a slight change but we agreed when he started back we would discuss the issues together when he came back from a session and be open and honest and now the pycotherapist is saying the treatment is for him and not for me to know and he hangs on her every word its not helping
But that only shows shame about being found by you but his actions do not show he really feels sorry for having wounded you and you children this much, they show he is unsure or feels pushed to have to be there because of being married and because of the responsibilities he cannot avoid as a parent. otherwise he would be doing everything in his power to show all of you how much he truly cares and loves all of you.
I do not believe his psychotherapist can nor should try to provide marriage therapy at all, that would be unethical and helpless, it must be another professional, ideally a marriage and family therapist, with good expertise and experience these type of issues.
What do I do ? His therapist says he has 3 heads on the naughty school boy the doting father and the doting husband and he does have all these but doesn't everyone have different hats to suit situations?
It is your husband' responsibility to show you, not only through words, but by concrete actions that he cares and loves you enough to be there and work in gaining back your respect, trust and affection. If he does not work like that, then I do not think your marriage nor family would have a real chance at all, no matter how hard you and your children try and hope for it.
We have been told we can only have one therapy at a time and his therapy comes first but no one seems bothered about me and the kids
You mean the therapist is justifying his behavior and supporting his avoidance to work on the serious marital and family issues?
I know your right but its hard to talk to him when he thinks his therapist is right all the time
ThatsThat's how it comes across yes
I assume this is the NHS way of working, right? What I know is that this is not acceptable, therapeutic nor healthy for you nor for your children at all. You and your children are the victims here, you have been traumatized by his actions , which continue to be hurtful, so individual, marriage and family therapy are needed.
Then I have to say that the therapist and the way you are receiving this limited help are unacceptable and far away from what you need and deserve.
But iI know from past conversions with the therapist she does chastise him in things he says and does but its not her place to advise him online to make him look at these situations and make him look at it in a different way
There are perhaps more incompetent and unethical mental health professionals that good ones, and I could say more people suffering of serious personality disorders in this professional filed than in any other field, that's why it is not easy to get a good professioanl, even more when the system is so mediocre and neglectful.
I have tried every avenue , iI am going back to my gp and see if she can get me and thrthe family reffered
Therapy is useless and counterproductive if it is not truly therapeutic, and it means if it does not support the client to take full responsibility for his own feelings, choices, actions and mistakes, to work on making necessary changes, to end any form of abusive or neglectful ways, to evaluate and set real priorities, and to really commit to make necessary changes and improvements in himself, and in his core relationships.
The problem is he is a mental health nurse and iI have experience in the mental field he knows how to get round his therapist cos he knows all the tricks but wontwon't help me get help for the family
I hope that could work. I know that it is not easy to afford getting a private practitioner in order not to depend on what the health system could offer.
Then I seriously believe you need to carefully assess your core needs and priorities here, and from there set good boundaries and limits, and take consistent actions, so you could take good care of yourselves in case he doe snot choose to truly work on himself, nor on the marriage of your family.
The private field is useless you pay them and they tell you what you want to hear and to be honest I having got the money
I fully understand you and am sorry to hear that. It's very frustrating but real, I can tell you I have always prefer a potential client to go away before taking them just to please their ego, as many if not most bad professionals do.
The kids are regretting he has come back cos all he does is undermine them and shout at them and they are metaphorically speaking sticking two fingers at him, he has lost there trust and respect and are sick of his empty promises
I prefer a client to hate me for being honest, assertive and professional, than to love me, and waste their money while getting their ego codependently fueled.
Then I do not see how your current situation could help any of you, you do not need nor deserve further wounding, neglect or abuse.
I'm glad to hear it , cos in my situation I need someone to be like that
Everybody needs someone like that, unhappily many do not want that at all, they prefer to get a "professional": to enable and approve their dysfunctional ways, and pills to feel good and justify his behaviors as symptoms from an illness.
The mental health system works based on labeling people and selling drugs, or getting people to circulate fast in order to charge insurances or government funds, not many care about the person's well-being; on the other hand independent practitioners sugarcoat and codependently fuel relationships with clients to get them to say so to get their money.
He works away and iI think he is still on the porn and the websites even though we shut them down together, but not 2 months after he had come home he was downloading porn whilst one of my sons and his friend were in the room, when confronted he just shrugged his shoulders and pulled a face behind my back to the eldest son and my son then had a right go at him, his therapist called him a Muppet and asked him how he felt about the situation and he said it was normal
This is truly serious, it shows he could have a real sex/porn addiction to the point he does not care how and where he acts it out, and I support you, it would be very naive to believe he is just doing fine, I believe he is just using therapy to justify his distorted ways. Such therapy would be useless and enable further addictions and dysfunction.
There is one websitewebsite that iI know his profile is still up and hers, and he has said he doesntdoesn't know how to get in it cos he has forgottonforgotten the email address and password XXXXX iI have contacted the website and they gave him a solution , but he still hasnthasn't done anything about it and when confronted about it he said he would do it when we were together, but never brings the subject up its always me
Therapy shoud never tolerate/enable such behaviors, it is not ethical, nor therapeutic at all, and it damages people like you nd your children even more
The therapist was warned to watch him cos he's a compulsive liver and he had never even mentioned to her about the memory card or me finding it, he just told her that I had thrown him out cos I didn't understand his depression??
I am sorry but it does not look good at all, I think you truly need to take better care of yourself and children. If your husband truly wants to change, rehabilitate, cares about you and wants to get you back, and start being a real and healthy parent and husband, he would do everything to make these changes real, but he is not, and only time will show you if he even really tries to make it work or not, but you cannot afford getting more wounded while he wonders and plays this way.
I know, but if iI say anything to him he says that it will take time and we both have to heal, but he does nothing to alleviate my fears,
That's shocking and shows how incompetent "professional" support or :therapy" could get, no way. He could be playing like that with any social worker or coach willing to take his money if possible, but not with a real therapist, it does not make any sense.
Its on the NHS but still shocking
Sorry that seem to be all excuses and for you to take them, would mean a very codependent problem enabling further abuse and dysfunction, you do not need nor deserve.
It is. Please carefully reflect on your real priorities here, on what you need and really want to afford, setting your own and your children's health and well-being as top priorities, and doing everything necessary to protect yourselves.
One thing is depression only and another very different addictions and personality disorders enabling abuse and neglect like this, an dI can tell you with certainty, that therapy sessions like that would not help and make your husband to rehabilitate from all these disorders and make necessary improvements in his life.
He won't go out whilst he's at home, he has an allotment but doesn't go, he won't take the kids out for pizza, he relies on me for the bills, he won't go out with me and I recently came back from a week away and as soon as I walked in the door he told me he was setting off for work when he had booked the week off n wasn't due bk till the Monday
And was away for the whole week instead of the 3 he normally is
Please read about codependency, like "Codependent No more" http://www.amazon.co.uk/Codependent-No-More-Controlling-Yourself/dp/0894864025/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1391975341&sr=1-1&keywords=codependent+no+more
I do not believe you need nor deserve any more of this really, it is just not healthy nor worthy at all
The therapist wants him to look at himself and self diagnose, we havnthaving seen a consultant and then she will tell him??
You can find local support groups here" http://www.coda-uk.org/?page=all
Can you send me the link to amazon again please
I think that is not helping but enabling him even more, since no serious issues are being addressed, she must have had collateral sessions with you to be aware of all the core issues involved but she didn't. so it is hopeless. Him diagnosing himself? That's another nonsense. He obviously needs intensive real individual and group therapy , marriage and family counselling too, and treatment much address each of one of his core disorders, including the addictions and personality problems.
If he is financially using you too, it makes things much more complex. It just does not look good at all for you.
He pays for the food
I see. Please take a look t these ones too: Boundaries in Marriage http://www.amazon.co.uk/Boundaries-Marriage-Dr-Henry-Cloud/dp/0310243149/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1391975748&sr=1-1&keywords=Boundaries+in+Marriage
Should I Stay or Should I Go?: A Guide to Knowing if Your Relationship Can--and Should--be Saved http://www.amazon.co.uk/Should-Stay-Relationship-Can--Should-Be/dp/042523889X/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1391975847&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=Should+I+Stay+or+Should+I+Go%3F%3A+A+Guide+to+Knowing+if+Your+Relationship+Can--and+Should--be+Saved
For xmasXmas iI bought him an expensive sat navNavy heshe's a truck driver, he said he was buying me a ring a white gold and diamond one to replace mine, he bought me a silver ring costing 15.99 from argos ? When confronted he told me he'd lied cos he didn't have the money , he earns more than me n I managed to buy everyone's presents, we have a large family?
This one is very good too: Facing Codependence: What It Is, Where It Comes from, How It Sabotages Our Lives http://www.amazon.co.uk/Facing-Codependence-Where-Comes-Sabotages/dp/0062505890/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1391975981&sr=1-1&keywords=Facing+Codependence%3A+What+It+Is%2C+Where+It+Comes+from%2C+How+It+Sabotages+Our+Lives
It seems obvious to me that you have been taking too much, enabling his abuse and neglect, and there is nothing that could justify you self-sabotaging this way at all.
But why is he doing all this ?
Please try reading this one: Women Who Love Too Much: When You Keep Wishing and Hoping He'll Change http://www.amazon.co.uk/Women-Who-Love-Too-Much-ebook/dp/B003YL44FY/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1391976111&sr=1-1&keywords=Women+Who+Love+Too+Much%3A+When+You+Keep+Wishing+and+Hoping+He%27ll+Change 6 pounds, and it is worthy for sure.
He says he loves me but doesntdoesn't show it
So you think its me ? I am hanging on to something thatsthat's dead
Selfishness, addictions, personality distortions, lack of maturity, codependency, endless neediness to fuel his ego while using and abusing those who would allow his manipulation
I believe these are all his serious personal issues-disorders but that you have been fueling enabling him because of codependency, having the best intentions and love, but distorted by codependency
Can you define codependancy as I'm not quite sure of its meaning please
Thus while he is the only one who could change himself, with necessary support, his manipulation and abuse would never reach you unless you tolerate and enable them, and there is where you need o focus, on taking better care of yourself, setting healthy and clear boundaries and limits.
Sett king the boundaries for who ? Me? Not quit e sure what you mean ?
When a person develops unhealthy ways of attachment, affection and sharing, allowing other people to use, abuse, neglect for manipulate you, even when you truly believe you are doing your best and helping them out of love, while in reality you fuel/enable those destructive patterns even more, getting more into the vicious circle. This is codependency, and it is a real and common addiction, many people have, it is socially conditioned and enabled, and most unknown or deny.
You need to set boundaries in order not to allow-tolerate your husband's unacceptable behaviors, from dishonesty to abuse, neglect or manipulation.
He keeps saying that he shouldnt have come back so early he was away3 months, he told everyone he would come back when he wasnt broken
If he is unable and unwilling to even respect you and your children, then how could you expect anything better from him? Then your boundaries would be unless you stop such behaviors and truly commit to start taking consistent actions showing respect towards us, this would to continue this way....
So what your saying is that im the one that is codependant ?
So yo us saying I'm the one that's code pendant ?
The I really believe he should not be there, but I am afraid that he would not work on himself really but wants the total freedom to deepen his disorders and unhealthy life style.
Codependency could never happen without being two or more people involved.
So your saying that I'm the code pendant one ?
So your saying imI'm the one thatsthat's codependantcode pendant?
I am saying that both of you seem to present codependency here, one manipulating and abusing the other, the other-you allowing and enabling it.
I think he is the one who manipulates and abuses you, while you suffer it and end allowing and enabling his abuse and manipulation.
This why I said I do not see how current situation could help you nor your children at all, it seems ti is wounding you even more.
Your right, I have told him that's its not working and he said that he wasn't going anywhere so I said what does that mean that I have to go ? He changed tact then n said that we were working together and we will get through it
You see the obvious manipulation?
Does he thrive on my misery ?
Please carefully reassess your situation, ask your GP for a referral for individual counselling or psychotherapy, and in the mean time read one of these books and look for a local support group for codependency from previous link, an dget all the support you could get from healthy members of your support system.
I believe the weaker and more vulnerable you get, the easier for him to manipulate, control, use and abuse you.
Everyone I know says I should leave him?
I do not suggest people to follow everybody's advice, but to always take into account the one from those who happen to be assertive-mature enough, and who truly care about you, who know you; and if many of those people give you shuc consistent feedback, most times it is accurate and matches reality.
Reality is that if this person truly cares about you and your children, he would do everything in his power to change and gain back your love and trust, otherwise he would perpetuate his ways no matter what you think, how you feel, need or expect.
I have suffered depression in the past from a previous marriage that was abusive physically, he knows this and has mentioned that I am getting how I used to be but he didn't know me then cos it was 10years after , so I think he's wrong there ,
I am sorry to know that, then he has been abusing your vulnerability, and this time it is not physical, but emotional, mental, finncial, moral.
He says he has changed a lot like leaving his phone so everyone can see it cos that's what the kids noticed about him, I have the passwords to his email accounts so I can get into them if I want, he won't let me look at his bank statements n I have asked him so that to me is suspicious
But iI know he is underhand enough to have others, he wipes the internet history off his phone but not on the house laptop cos he knows i can get into that to restore it lol
He is very sneaky n underhand and i was never th
Many things could be manipulated but concrete behaviors he shows day by day do not lie, including telling the therapist you pushed him away because of being depressed, or getting more porn when with your children, and his chronic neglect of you and of your children.
Like that but have learnt over the years to look for what he terms as isnt there, i have asked him to stop working away but he wont what does that tell you?
Right, this is about denial, avoidance, justification, dishonesty, secrecy, manipulation and more core serious issues that would not just go away.
Everything I just mentioned before. That's what I see.
Is this me or him you are talking about ?
Or both ?
If you were my client I'd even tell you that I would get all your money back if time shows you that I was wrong. Time shows you reality, just do not wait for it to become much more painful to face it and start taking better care of yourselves.
I was talking about him.
I thought so was just checking
I do believe you have codependency because of allowing and enabling him, while having good intentions you end self-sabotaging this ways.
He even told the therapist that he felt like a little schoolboy being taken to school when I went with him, so I don't go anymore and the arrangement is she touches base with me every so often, but cos of that statement she hasn't phoned me for 6. weeks ? So that's me reckoning he's manipulated another situation again
Please carefully reflect on what he have discussed and start taking some actions inconsistency with what you really need, want and expect for you and your children's lives.
Do you have any other question I may assist you with?
Do you think I should tackle the therapist head on with all this ?
The therapist should be open and willing to listen to you, since the main or one of the main reasons for therapy was his personal issues-disorders destroying your marriage and family, so collateral sessions and her being ready to hear from you, even without providing any feedback because of confidentiality when he is not present seems necessary, otherwise he could keep using therapy as a excuse to perpetuate his dysfunctional and abusive ways.
This is why I also said that his individual therapist cannot and should not try to provide marriage counselling, but must carefully work using collateral sessions if the main goals of therapy include the marital n family issues.
Right but she apparently told him that the family issues and the marriage counselling she would sort at a later date is this usually the case ?
Therapy or counseling depends on the main reason for requesting professional support, and what the client agrees to work on. No therapist sets those main goals, unless a court orders therapy, in which case the client and therapist must follow those guidelines. Also, if it is individual therapy, it cannot become marriage therapy or for her to play any other extra role without her breaking core ethical values and standards making her unable to provide either sound support through individual marriage or family therapy. The exception is when individual counseling has as a core goal any of those issues, and it is agreed to work through collateral sessions, and for that, the client and expert cannot avoid or hide basic information, or it becomes a codependent situation that would not benefit anybody.
Does it make sense?
Yeah so basically he's lied again !
Everything here shows that consistent pattern.
A client does not "obey" what a therapist orders. It is the client who sets his own goals and objectives in therapy, in consistency with his own needs and priorities, and can always change or adjust them as necessary, with his therapist's support.
Yeah x thank you for your honesty I know what I have to do ?
You're very welcome
Please feel free to contact me if you have any further questions and to follow up, since I am here willing to support you as possible. This is the direct link to my profile here: http://www.justanswer.com/relationship/expert-rafael-morales-toia/ You can directly contact me using this link, and make sure you include my name "Rafael" in your request for other experts to know you want me to reply, and I will in less than an hour most of the times.
Thank you for your trust. Take gentle care and consistent action.