How JustAnswer Works:

  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site.
    Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.

Ask bigduckontax Your Own Question

bigduckontax
bigduckontax, Accountant
Category: Tax
Satisfied Customers: 2998
Experience:  FCCA FCMA CGMA ACIS
75394688
Type Your Tax Question Here...
bigduckontax is online now

I am a locum dentist.do I need to set up a limited company

Customer Question

I am a locum dentist.do I need to set up a limited company or umbrella company in order to be paid? Does the tax treatment of workers legislation in the 2014 budget refer to me?
Regards zsolt
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Tax
Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
Hello Zsolt, I'm Keith and happy to help you with your question.

You don't need to you can operate as self employed. I am at a loss as to what you mean by 'tax treatment of workers legislation in 2014 budget,' please expand.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hmrc onshore employment intermediaries, false self-employment publicity date 10_12_13 closing date for comments 04_02_14 does this apply to ,e?what is my position?

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
Don't worry, you act like any other self employed person
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

So who does this document published by hmrc refer to? What is is function?

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
False self employment is used by many employers to avoid taxes and engage workers without having to respect employment rights and entitlements such as holiday pay, sick pay and pensions. Whilst not illegal it is immoral. Progress was made in this matter with the last Labour Government, but the election of the Conservative/Liberal Democrat government stopped this.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

So employers used to register workers with hmrc as self employed in order avoid paying tax on the employers income and avoid giving them the benefit of sick pay and holiday pay?

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
Exactly and a number of other employment rights as well; they would also avoid having to pay the employer's element of the NI contribution.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

So this legislation does not apply to me at all as I am not responsible for anyone other than myself.

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
Correct!
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

My recruitment agent has his payroll system to pay those he finds work for but he insists I need to employ a third party to engage an umbrella company or engage an accountant to become a limited company in order for him to pay me?. How should I respond to him if I want to be paid as a self employed person? And why is he giving me this choice do you think?

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
I couldn't possibly comment on the working practices of your recruitment agent, but I can see no reason why he should not pay you as self employed. Just tell him you are a professional person and expect to receive your fees on a self employed basis. There is no legal requirement whatsoever for you to employ an intermediary.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

he agency claim that the ministry of defence has the right to supervise and direct me if they so choose and because of this I am included in the legislation mentioned in previous correspondence. So does the mod have this right? And would that include me in the legislation as the agency claims? The agency goes on to say that because I fall within the remit of this legislation I can not work self employed. The agency says that if they were to continue to pay me the gross wage as a self employed sole trader and hmrc decide that the mod has the right to some control or supervision , whether the mod excersize that right or not is irrelevant, then hmrc will demand that the agency pay hmrc a self employed persons PAYE plus employers national insurance. Please comment on these claims so I can formulate my response.

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
Please expand upon what you mean by the term 'mod?' As a dentist your work performance comes under the auspices of your professional body and as you will be aware can be supervised by professionals employed for that service. Nearly all dentists in the UK are self employed save those who are directly employed by hospitals etc.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Please read the edited version of my last response, thank you.

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
Ah, now I understand. If you work for the MOD as a Civilian Dental Practitioner or indeed as a commissioned officer in the Royal Army Dental Corps your professional work will be supervised by a senior dentist, usually with a MGDS to boot. You would be paid even as a temporary employee under PAYE.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Please expand on your former response so I can better understand your last response. I have a professional body, are you referring to the British dental association? And I can be supervised by profesionals employed for that service, are you referring to the general dental council as the professionals employed to supervisee me?

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
I am referring to the dental audit professionals employed to maintain dental standards. Co-incidentally many of these are retired Royal Army Dental Corps dental officers.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

What professional body do the audit professional work for in civilian life?

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
I haven't the least idea, I am not a dentist although I do have some background knowledge on the subject. With respect we seem to be straying rather far from methods of salary payment.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Okay so the point is that I am regulated internally by the mod and therefore no longer able to claim self employed status, is this correct?

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
Almost certainly the MOD will wish to employ you under PAYE although cases do exist of contractors, which is what you are classed as, working under self employed status, particularly if the contract length is short.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Is six months regarded as short?

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
I could not possibly comment as I am out of touch with such detailed matters these days. I suspect it might be considered as short but your letter of appointment would advise you of the method of payment. Have you been asked to complete an HMRC form P46?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I have only been given an hourly rate and number hours contracted to work, and then instructed to set up an umbrella company.

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
Sorry, we seem to be going round in circles. Who has instructed you to set up an umbrella company?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

My employment agency

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
Tell them to take a running jump, to use a colloqualism. Invoice them for your fees and tell them to pay you your fees direct or you will sue them in the small claims court. Claims for unpaid wages are virtually indefensible. This agency appears to have a very limited knowledge of how to operate.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

So the agencies claim that if they paid me the gross wage or fee as a self employed sole trader and if hmrc decide that the mod has the right to some control or supervision over my work then hmrc will demand that the agency will have to pay hmrc my PAYE plus employers national insurance is false?

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
HMRC might indeed prefer you to be paid under PAYE. The supervision of your professional work is quite another matter and can be separated from your employment through the agency. As I have told you many senior military dentists are very highly qualified. I knew of at least one who was also a lecturer at the Eastman as part of his MOD work. To give you another example in the UK military dentists do not normally treat children, but for professional advancement such exposure is essential and often arranged particularly for kids with exceptional dental problems. The professional aspect of your employment of necessity must operate outside the normal employer/employee relationships.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Please expand on your last sentence, I don't understand.

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
You might be employed by an agency or persons not professionally qualified so your dentistry might well be overseen by your professional peers or by external dental audit.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Does accepting a job from the mod make me an employee of the agency?

Expert:  bigduckontax replied 2 years ago.
It might; I am not privy to the arrangements between you and whoever engaged you.

What Customers are Saying:

 
 
 
  • Wonderful service, prompt, efficient, and accurate. Couldn't have asked for more. I cannot thank you enough for your help. Mary C.
< Previous | Next >
  • Wonderful service, prompt, efficient, and accurate. Couldn't have asked for more. I cannot thank you enough for your help. Mary C.
  • This expert is wonderful. They truly know what they are talking about, and they actually care about you. They really helped put my nerves at ease. Thank you so much!!!! Alex
  • Thank you for all your help. It is nice to know that this service is here for people like myself, who need answers fast and are not sure who to consult. GP
  • I couldn't be more satisfied! This is the site I will always come to when I need a second opinion. Justin
  • Just let me say that this encounter has been entirely professional and most helpful. I liked that I could ask additional questions and get answered in a very short turn around. Esther
  • Wonderful service, prompt, efficient, and accurate. Couldn't have asked for more. I cannot thank you enough for your help. Mary C.
  • This expert is wonderful. They truly know what they are talking about, and they actually care about you. They really helped put my nerves at ease. Thank you so much!!!! Alex
 
 
 

Meet The Experts:

 
 
 
  • Sam

    Sam

    Accountant

    Satisfied Customers:

    6894
    26 HMRC expertise, PAYE, Self Assessment ,Residency, Rental Income, Capital Gains, CIS ask for Sam Tax
< Last | Next >
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/TA/Tax Expert/2013-8-21_231010_sam.64x64.jpg Sam's Avatar

    Sam

    Accountant

    Satisfied Customers:

    6894
    26 HMRC expertise, PAYE, Self Assessment ,Residency, Rental Income, Capital Gains, CIS ask for Sam Tax
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/BI/bigduckontax/2013-8-12_222058_1.64x64.jpg bigduckontax's Avatar

    bigduckontax

    Accountant

    Satisfied Customers:

    1772
    FCCA FCMA CGMA ACIS
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/TA/TaxRobin/2013-8-28_16186_femalebusinessprofessionalbinderhand11038485.64x64.jpg TaxRobin's Avatar

    TaxRobin

    Tax Consultant

    Satisfied Customers:

    464
    International tax
  • /img/opt/shirt.png taxadvisor.uk's Avatar

    taxadvisor.uk

    Chartered Certified Accountant

    Satisfied Customers:

    2596
    FCCA - over 35 years experience as a qualified accountant (UK based Practitioner)
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/MS/MsAM/2012-6-9_16426_anna.64x64.jpeg Anna's Avatar

    Anna

    Teacher, writer, biologist

    Satisfied Customers:

    268
    Great research skills, variety of work experiences, teaching experience.
  • http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/PD/pdheslin/2012-6-6_232056_pambig.64x64.jpg pdheslin's Avatar

    pdheslin

    Consultant

    Satisfied Customers:

    51
    20+ years of internet site creation and search engine optimization. Dozens of search tools at my disposal.
 
 
 

Related Tax Questions