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Sam
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Category: Tax
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The question is: Is sending a form P85 mandatory? Is there

Resolved Question:

The question is: Is sending a form P85 mandatory? Is there an alternative? E.g. adding some details on SA109 (for the tax year after having left UK).
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Tax
Expert:  Sam replied 1 year ago.
Hi Thanks for your question No sending P85 is not mandatory but it just advises HMRC of your having departed the Uk and any continuing UK income that might be arising -But if you are continuing to file a self assessment tax return - you then add any income pages along with the SA109 which declares non residency and makes a claim for any UK personal allowances due, to offset against any UK incime arisng.The only other action you need to consider is if you have rental income arising in the Uk if so then please advsie and I can expand further ThanksSam
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

I think my question was not clear or not fully understood. Please let me add:



Do you know if I can tell HMRC, in my Self Assessment, on from SA109 'any other information section' that I have left UK and wont have further income nor ties from / to UK? AND assume that I don't need to complete further Self Assessments / tax returns for following year 2015-2016. Or is there another way than P85?



(In my case I won't have any income nor ties during UK tax year 2015-2016. I left already and I can't follow the requirement on gov.uk “Tax if you leave the UK to live abroad” page ; “Fill in form P85 and send it to HMRC. Include Parts 2 and 3 of your P45 form..”. I left already and I never had a P45. I never had a domestic employer and spent so much time abroad (>183 days per year working from country to country almost on weekly basis) that I'm uncomfortable to answer the question in P85 for how long time I have been LIVING in UK as I am not sure if I want to call my circumstances 'living'. I'm not uncomfortable with saying I been a resident, as I have maintained UK tax residency and since the years lasting tenancy agreements I have had was to UK property only and have had no right to reside at any property abroad over the years)

Expert:  Sam replied 1 year ago.
Hi Thanks for your question No - you do not use the SA109 to advise HMRC of the fact you are no longer in the UK - you in this instance are better using form P85 to advsie this and your cessation of all ties with the UK .You do NOT need a P45 to send in with thid form - it is asked for just in case a tax refund is due from 6th April to the date of leaving the UK but the form P85 is accepted without one. But do you have any ties with HMRC such as employment or self employment) up to the date you finally left the UK or were in the UK, as you may not need to do anything at all. So let me know how you supported yourself whilst living in the UK for the tax year 2014/2015 (or the last year you lived here for part/all of the year) and when you left - and what your plans are over the next 3 years and how often you might visit the UK - and will any of this be for work - undertaken in the UK and why you feel you need to complete P85 or replace it with SA109 (which is one part of the whole self assessment tax return) Did you ever complete self assessment tax returns in the UK for HMRC and what you mean when you say "have had no right to reside at any property abroad over the years"Thanks Sam
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

My employer is not from EU or UK. Through all years I been resident in UK I have had this employer. I left 2015 in January and became resident and tax resident in another country (not country of my employer). I ceased to have ties to UK in March and plan not to have ties to UK anymore. I'm not interested in claiming split year treatment. I consider myself as tax resident throughout the tax year 2014 – 2015. On wards I'll spend 5-60 days per year for work and / or holidays in UK. I have been sending online self assessment all years. With the “have had no right to reside at any property abroad over the years” I try to imply I have had no ties (e.g. tenancy agreement) to any other country than UK with the exception of an 'employment tie' to the country of my employer ( nor resident nor tax resident there) and a 'domicile tie' to yet another country. As such my UK residency have not been questionable, but I have always felt uncomfortable saying that I live in UK – due to the amount of days abroad.

> why you feel you need to complete P85 or replace it with SA109
I need to fill in SA109 with the SA100 because I moved abroad and gained residency in another country during the tax year. I thought I could possibly also use SA109 for conveying my message about having left UK. P85 didn't seem right as it seemed to be for individuals who are leaving (haven't left yet), can submit P45 and who have lived in UK under normal circumstances. My two first assumptions, you have pointed out is not correct. Thank you.

Expert:  Sam replied 1 year ago.
Hi
Thanks for your response
It makes no difference whether you employer was non UK or EU - you should have declared this income to HMRC as
1) It was being remitted to the UK for
2) Work you seem to have carried out in the UK
Whether it was a case you declared this as self employment or employment is an issue that would have been addressed, but the income should have been declared until such time that you then were no longer treated as resident in the UK - which initially seems to be from Jan 2015.
And you advise that you did submit self assessment tax returns to declare this income, so that side of matters does seem to have been dealt with correctly..
But even though you will spend less than 90 days per tax year, in the UK from here onward you indicate that some of those days will be for work purposes, so whether you have an interest in claiming split year treatment is not your choice but a matter of what actually takes place.
So it would be prudent for you to complete form P85 so HMRC are
1) aware of when you left the UK
2) How much time you will visit the UK for work purposes
3) Whether you need to continue to complete self assessment
But then you then go onto say you have not left the UK which is why you do not wish to complete form P85 but have then said you left in Jan 2015 and cease to have
You are over complicating matters !
Do let me know if I can be of any further assistance
Thanks
Sam
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Let's try to keep it simple.

I'm required to complete Self Assessment. I tested the online P85 questions and got the pdf to send to HRMC. See what I have underlined. As per that I should not send a P85 for tax year 2014 - 2015 since I send a self assessment.

So this points to another way... which points to my original question "... Is there an alternative?" Do you know of an alternative?





About this form

This form is designed to be filled in on screen. You must answer all the questions except those marked 'optional'. You can’t save the form but once you’ve completed it you’ll be able to print a copy and post it.

Use this form to claim tax relief or a repayment of tax if: you have lived and worked in the UK, and

you are leaving the UK and you may not be coming back or you are going to work abroad full-time for at least one complete tax year. A tax year is from 6 April one year to 5 April the next.

Do not fill in this form if:

you normally live in the UK and are going abroad for short periods, for example on holiday or a business trip, or

you have completed, or are required to complete a Self Assessment tax return for the tax year that you leave.





> But then you then go onto say you have not left the UK which is why you do not wish to complete form P85

No, that is not what I said. That's a misunderstanding.

Expert:  Sam replied 1 year ago.
Hi No you do not HAVE to send a P85 - as this form merely advises HMRC as an aside position that you are no longer living in the UK - and I always advise individuals to send one on on that basis they (as in HMRC) then determine1) your new considered residency status and 2) Whether the next full tax year (after you have left) whether you need to complete a self assessment thereafter. AND as you have no ties remaining in the UK this would be the moct simplest route.If you choose not to beothered to fill in P85 (as HMRC ay this is NOT necessary) then you will need tow rite into HMRC to advsie you have left the UK and you can do this in one of two ways1) Advise on the additional space fields within the self assessment tax return that you have left the UK and refer to SA109 of the return OR2) Write a letter to HMRC which refers to the date you left the UK and then when the tax return is completed also fill in SA109 anyway. Because either way the information ON P85 is what HMRC will need to come back and ask you anyway - such as when you left - what are your planned visits, will any paid work be undertaken in the UK, how many ties you have in the UK and do you envisage spending less than a full tax year out of the UK But you can choose what route you like - Thanks Sam
Sam, Accountant
Category: Tax
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Experience: 26 HMRC expertise, PAYE, Self Assessment ,Residency, Rental Income, Capital Gains, CIS ask for Sam Tax
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Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you for your effort!! Laughing

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