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bigduckontax, Accountant
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I am a 72 year old British Citizen now living in the UK. I

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Hello
I am a 72 year old British Citizen now living in the UK.
I returned from Thailand in June 2015, where I lived on 1 year retirement visas since 1998
I never spent more than about 3-4 weeks a year in UK visiting family, sometimes less.
In 2014 I was diagnosed with an incurable peripheral neuropathy, so at age 69 I decided to return to the UK as I could not get sufficient medical cover there. I decided to move back to the area where my son lives, for obvious reasons.
In 2014 after my diagnosis and deciding to return, I transferred around 30,000 GBP to my sons bank account, as I had no UK bank account. I had been non resident since 1998 and the International Pensions also had me registered as living in Thailand after I turned 65.
I asked my son to just keep the money in his account and maybe take out an ISA with part of it, which he did. I said to him if anything happens to me just keep it. For some reason and only knowing the insecurity of Asian banks, I asked him to withdraw the money in cash to keep in his safe, which he reluctantly agreed to and maybe in hindsight not a great idea.
I have since acquired bank accounts of my own and I would like the money put into my account, which is fine with my son, I think he will be glad to be rid of the responsibility.
My question is; as this money was acquired quite legally over a period of 17 years whilst not being domiciled in the UK, are there any tax implications. I didn't think there were and I didn't think withdrawing it in cash and putting the same amount back (with explanation) into the bank it would still be OK.
I am now finding myself fretting over this situation, though I know there is nothing illegal. I'm just an old sick man who would like to stop worrying one way or another.
I haven't tried to defraud anyone and had I had secure bank accounts of my own at the time I would have transferred it there. I have the transfer certificate from the bank in Thailand so I did it legally (I hope)
Please can you let me know how I stand on this so I can put another worry to one side?
Thank you very much
Allan
Submitted: 1 month ago.
Category: Tax
Expert:  bigduckontax replied 1 month ago.

Hello Allan, I am Keith, one of the experts on Just Answer, and pleased to be able to help you with your question.

Firstly, just to be on the safe side when you went to Thailand in 69 did you complete a Form P85 to the Inland Revenue as it was then? If you did not then you should do so immediately, but now, of course, to HMRC. Fortunately the form is available on the web and can be filed on line. On receipt HMRC will classify you as non resident. You notify them of your return to Blighty by letter.

You have done nothing illegal. Your son may return the moneys to you. All this is outside the scope of UK taxation.

I do hope that I have been able to set your mind at rest on this matter.

I do feel, however, that you have been a tad unkind to the Thai banking system. I have a That wife and she has never had trouble with their banks.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Hi Keith
Sorry about the Thai bank comment, it was a tad unkind. No I didn't fill out anything, I just went.
So, you are saying that although I went to Thailand in 1998, I should now fill out a form P85?
Although I have been back in the UK 2 years and they have already taxed me on a small pension lump sum I had (about 3,000 tax on a 12,000 NHS lump sum, I should notify them now that I have returned?
Can you clarify please Keith?
Kind Regards
Allan
Expert:  bigduckontax replied 1 month ago.

Too right Allan, if you don't you could find HMRC trampling all over you trying to tax you for moneys you earned overseas which the P85 procedure would automatically block. Just send in a P85 to your tax office with a note that you returned and all should be well. There is no time limit as to its submission.

The taxation of that lump sum appears a tad fishy. Are you on higher rates tax? 25% would be tax free leaving 9K liable to tax at your marginal rate.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Hello Keith
Thank you for your patience and answersI'm not clear on this; The taxation of that lump sum appears a tad fishy. Are you on higher rates tax? 25% would be tax free leaving 9K liable to tax at your marginal rate.I'm not sure what rate I'm on, just assumed they would just take what's due. I only live on a Government Pension + 120 GBP a month from other (NHS 70 and Canada Pension 50 which they tax)My real concern is this money I originally spoke of, as long as I'm doing nothing illegal I feel better.
Will HMRC want to see any proof when I fill out the form, do you think? I have my passports since 1998 with constant one year visa stamps, (which you might be familiar with) showing that I wasn't domiciled in UK until 2015.Kind Regards
Allan
Expert:  bigduckontax replied 1 month ago.

Sounds all wrong to me. You would be on basic rate tax only on that level of income, but please tell me the annual sum received before tax on all your pensions. Remember, that under the Double Taxation Treaty between the UK and Canada the same income stream cannot be taxed in both jurisdictions. Any tax paid in Canada is allowed as a tax credit against any UK liability.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Please bear with me Keith, things don't work too well at times,with this heavily medicated mind.
I'm really pleased with your help so far, much relieved.I've just dug out some paperwork and the figures I mentioned were wrong.
1. Dec 8, 2015. NHS Advice of Payment Gross 7916 GBP. Tax 2238 GBP Tax code 1060L MI PAYE reference 948/401
2. Sept 19, 2016 Letter from HMRC saying tax calculation for year 6 April 2015 to 5 April 2016. You have paid too much tax and gave me a refund of 1264 GBP
3 There is a page with it too that outlines Rates of tax and allowances, showing my 10,600 GBP allowanceGoing back, still fill in the forms you mentioned with a note?
Hope this is OK to understandKind regards
Allan
Expert:  bigduckontax replied 1 month ago.

Absolute balderdash and piffle, typical HMRC incompetence. You were not due to pay any tax at all in 15/16 on an income of 7916, well below the personal allowance. You should have been refunded 2238 quid. You should take the whole matter up with your tax office by letter and request a repayment of over paid tax.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
UK Pension 605 GBP every 4 weeks
NHS Pension 70 GBP per calendar month
Canada Pension 50 GBP per calendar month, depending on exchange rate, has been lower the tax is miniscule.I think I'm OK with all the above as they fall below my allowance and I have no other income.That's why my main worry is the 30,000 GBP I transferred to England for my return.
I'm looking at the P85 form you mention and it seems geared to going abroad, but I should still fill it in as advised. (With my address in UK before I left I presume?)
Kind Regards
Allan
Expert:  bigduckontax replied 1 month ago.

As I said Allan no tax is due. Even with the lump sum taken into account your tax bill for the year is of the order of a tad over 1400 quid so the 3K deducted from your lump sum is sheer gibberish. Take it up with your tax office.

The 30K you transferred is, providing you did the P85 action, outside the scope of UK taxation, being earned whilst you were non resident.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Keith, I'm really struggling looking at this P85 form. It asks so many questions that I cannot answer, re such things as employment etc. I worked for different NGO's most disbanded and was always paid cash. I can't recall when I started one or then another, I think you understand the system of working there. Would it be easier to talk on the phone?
Expert:  bigduckontax replied 1 month ago.

Forget about all those questions. All you are drumming into HMRC is that you left in 96. You cannot be expected to have kept that knowledge, after all it is over 20 years ago and well beyond HMRC's reach now.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
basically I should just put 'not known' for any address or work as it wasn't?
1. Enclose a letter saying I've been advised to fill this form out as I don't recall filling one.
2. Forget the questions I wouldn't have been able to answer at the time.
3. Put my last UK address before leaving
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Do I just put N/A or Don't know to answer the questions and do I put my last UK address before leaving?
This should be the last question, I just want to get it right
Expert:  bigduckontax replied 1 month ago.

That should cover you. You could also explain in your notification of return letter what is going on.

Please be so kind as to rate me before you leave the \Just Answer site.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
You mean what is going on regarding the transfer of money or should I just explain that if necessary?
I certainly will rate you before I leave, you have been very patient and helpful.
How do I contact you again if I need your assistance?
Kind regards
Allan
Expert:  bigduckontax replied 1 month ago.

No, say nothing about the transfer. Just explain in the letter why you are submitting the P85 so late.

You can continue to contact me on this thread after you have accepted my responses.

bigduckontax and other Tax Specialists are ready to help you
Expert:  bigduckontax replied 1 month ago.

Thank you for your excellent support.