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Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Traffic Law
Satisfied Customers: 69374
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice.
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i am mdue in court soon being charged with undue care and attention,

Customer Question

i am mdue in court soon being charged with undue care and attention, i am unsure whether to plead guilty based on the following.

1, the police cleared all the cars from the scene of the accident prior to any photos or evidence being taken, i refused to move my car so a police officer got in and did it against my wishes, this was to allow an air ambulance to land, which was never going to happen.
2. ther bike rider says he was riding on the crown of the road, which is a lie, i have measured the road and it is 4 mtrs wide, the van which was parked in front of me was 2.2 mtrs wide, my car moved about 400mm, which made it in total around 2.6 mtr, if that was the case the bike would have clearly seen my indicator and my car, i have a witness that states he clearly thinks the bike was riding to close to the parked cars.

where do i stand on this.
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Traffic Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Thank you for your question. i will try to help with this.

Did you pull across him?

How did the collision take place?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

i was facing the on coming traffic, i looked up the road and saw 2 cars coming towards me and a truck, there was a van parked in front of me, then waited looked again and saw nothing coming, i then indicated and edged very gingerly out, the motor nike then hit the very front corner of my car, which clearly implies he was not in the middle of the road as he said.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
So you pulled across him?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

i pulled out, not sure if that is the same thing?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Sorry, I'm not sure I've understood the road layout.

You mean you joined the road that he was on from a side road?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

no, we were both on a main road, i had parked up to go into a shop, i then started to pull out when in my opinion he hit me.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.

If you are saying that you pulled out from a stationary position into his oncoming vehicle then you are very definitely responsible for this I'm afraid.

Whether it amounts to driving without due care is another matter. They have to show that your driving fell below the standard of a reasonably competent driver which is not the same thing as showing there was an accident. Sometimes people do get off charges of driving without due care even where they would clearly be liable at the civil courts.

Overall though, the truth is that if I have understood the facts correctly you are likely to be convicted. Its possible that it could go either way but it would be a good win.

The fact that a biker may well be untruthful about his position in the road doesn't really add all that much to the essential issues. Come what may, you pulled out in front of him and its for you to check that these routes are clear. You don't describe anything obstructing your view so they may well find that act was sufficient to amount to driving without due care.

Also, if you refused to move your car so that an air ambulance could land then I'm afraid the Court is likely to have an adverse view anyway.

Sorry thats probably not the answer you wanted but it is the position that you have and I have a duty to give you truthful and accurate information even though its not what I want to say.

Hope this helps. Please rate my answer OK SERVICE or above and I can answer your related questions.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

in your opinion should i plead guilty for a more lenient outcome, or is there a way i could plead guilty and still try and raise my point of view, i obviously need my licence for my job, and i have been told the outcome if guilty will be points and a fine, a traffic awareness course or disqualification.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
How badly was he injured?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

he had a broken leg and toe, he wasnt wearing protective boots or clothing, he had a pair of jeans on and what looked like training shoes, not sure wheter that makes a difference.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Do you have any other points and if so from when?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

sorry, don,t understand

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Do you have any other points on your licence?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

sorry,


i have 3 points i think dating back to 2010, i also have 4 which are still on my licence however i believe they should come off after 3 years, if so just


the 3.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Ok.

Can you tell me the dates of your points? They will be on your paper licence?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

had to ring the wife for this one,


 


sp30 20/10/11 3 points


sp50 29/08/09 4 points £200.00 fine.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
And what was the date of this offence?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


july this year.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Okay. I see your concern.

In terms of whether you should plead, it's really a matter of how much risk you want to take. Even if you go to court and you are convicted the fine would not be substantially higher. The issue would be court costs which could be in the region of £300-£500.

However, even if you plead guilty that would not lead to a reduction in points. You do get credit for a guilty plea but that is not recognised by points. That would just lead to a reduction in your fine.

Unfortunately all of your points are active. The most recent 3 points are clearly active. Although the matter from 2009 has now dropped off your licence, it would have been valid at the time of this offence because you were still within the three-year period. The court might not notice that but it is likely that the DVLA would pick it up. Unfortunately that will mean that you have 7 live points on your licence.

For driving without due care and attention you are not automatically disqualified. Actually I would not expect a disqualification here. You can get between 3 to 9 points or potential disqualification. The truth is that I suspect you are looking at 3 to 6.

Unfortunately, if you do have 7 points then you can only get 5 before you are disqualified as a totter because you have more than 12.

At least if you do reach that stage then you can make an application to avoid disqualification on the basis that you will suffer exceptional hardship if you are disqualified.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


Ok,


in your expert opinion, would you recommend i plead guilty and see what happens, i was just thinking of not guilty due to all the points i have raised, however if you say it is my fault then there is no point.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Its not quite that bad. Its certainly your fault as far as the civil law goes but they have to prove that your driving fell below the required standard which is not the same thing.

With undue care and attention its often worth a punt really as courts do often find people not guilty on the basis that they cannot find it was anything more than an accident.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

that is what the policeman said to me, so is it worth pleading not guilty. my main concern is in doing so they may take a sterner view.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Yes, they will but they shouldn't give you more penalty points for doing that. The fines will be higher and court costs will be more.

Delighted to continue with this but please rate my answer.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Traffic Law
Satisfied Customers: 69374
Experience: Over 5 years in practice.
Jo C. and other Traffic Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


do you have any idea what the fine and costs will be, if i plead not guilty are the points i have raised to you valid and will they stand me in good stead.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Usually its an amount in the low to middling hundreds for the fine and court costs of about £400 - £600 if this is a half day trial.

In terms of points, it depends how they are phrased. They are not going to like an attempt to blame the biker but they might accept that this was just a mistake on your part that didn't fall below the standard of the reasonable driver.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

ok,if i was to plead not guilty, do you have any way i can phrase it to the court that it was a genuine mistake, i obviously didn,t go out to hit the biker.


 


if this goes on much longer i will have to add you to my xmas card list

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
The best point you have is that he may have been driving further on the left than he thought which might have obstructed your vision. Then the mistake becomes a more reasonable one.

Its always best to put mistake rather than lies anyway before Magistrates.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

ok,


 


i will give it a go, many thanks for your help.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
No problem.

All the best.

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