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Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Traffic Law
Satisfied Customers: 69365
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice.
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I have recently recieved a notice of intended prosicution for

Customer Question

I have recently recieved a notice of intended prosicution for exceeding the speed limit. The dual carriagway in question is restricted to 50mph. Apparently the unmanned camera recorded my speed at 66mph at 03.09hrs. I know for a fact that the flash occurred at 03.01 as I checked my car speed and time and it registered 03.03 and 58mph. I know my clock is exactly 2mins out as it has been since the clocks changed, As for my speed I was travelling to Liverpool airport and knew I had plenty of time before the check in opened at 04.00 and was only approx 25mins away. I am also aware that my speedo along with most other vehicles registers higher than the actual speed, therefore I imagine it to have been around the 53-55 mph. I don't have any points on my licence and therefore not trying to salvage anything, however I'm adament that the readings from the camera are incorrect. Before I complete the NIP form should I do anything. Regards. MC
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Traffic Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Thank you for your question. i will try to help with this.

Were you speeding?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

FOR JOMO1972


I was travelling at approximately 55 mph in a 50mph area not the 66mph the camera suggests

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
I'm really sorry but you are likely to be in difficulty here.

Whichever way you look at this, you were speeding. There is no defence in saying that you did commit an offence but not as badly as the Crown allege.

You can always put the Crown to proof even if you are guilty but that is dangerous here. I'm really sorry but I'm afraid your logic is flawed. You are trying to argue that because your speedometre registered a different speed the camera is wrong. The camera may be wrong. Sometimes technology fails. However, a GATSO camera is a device approved by the Department of Transport and probably calibrated fairly recently. If it comes right down to a choice between the reliability of a GATSO and your speedometer then the GATSO is going to win.

You can always offer a plea on the basis that you were not travelling at that speed but you were speeding. Since it is a different speed bracket the Crown may refuse and the risk is that the Court would say there is a need for a Newton hearing in which they determine which version they prefer. Likely you would lose and then you would have to pay costs.

In any event, you do not admit the offence when you complete a S172 form. All you do is identify the person driving in accordance with your S172 form responsibilities. If you want to raise this defence later then thats a matter for you but its a very high risk option.

Sorry thats probably not the answer you wanted but it is the position that you have and I have a duty to give you truthful and accurate information even though its not what I want to say.

Hope this helps. Please rate my answer OK SERVICE or above and I can answer your related questions.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Traffic Law
Satisfied Customers: 69365
Experience: Over 5 years in practice.
Jo C. and other Traffic Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

JOMO1972


 


Thank you very much, yes it's not the answer I would have liked but accept that i was at fault. I did actually think i was in a 60mph zone as it's quite a major dual carriageway. I didn't notice any 50mph signs at the time but have looked on google this afternoon and accept that there are signs. My main concern is that i know i wasn't in any hurry and that my speedo was registering well under 60mph and their clock is definately out of sinc. I can accept a slap on the wrist for doing maybe 55-57 which would possibly have relieved me from any prosecution but would certainly feel hard done by not having the option of doing a driver awareness course because I was way over the legal speed limit, which i am adament is wrong. Thank you again for your advice. Kind Regards


 


Martin

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
You don't have a right to the speed awareness course anyway. That is entirely within the discretion of the police.
They may offer it anyway. They can do that for quite high speeds when it suits them.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


Thank you again.


 


I appreciate your comments.


 


I'm also really sorry I'm currently unemployed and not able to leave you a tip. Hopefully life's changing for me in the near future and will have no hesitation in recommending your services.


 


Kind Regards


 


Martin

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Don't worry! You don't have to leave a tip!

Please do come back with further queries. You can always request me.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


Many thanks. Would liked to have left you a tip. Will keep a note of your reference for any queries. Have a good weekend.


 


Martin


ps If you ski/snowboard i'm working on a new business venture and can save you £££££'s I can send you a complimentary card. Drop me a line on the web site AltitudeCard.com.


 


Thanks again

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Thanks.

All the best.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

FORJOMO1972


 


Hi, thanks for your last message.


 


I submitted my NOIP and have now received a conditional offer of a fixed penalty. They haven't given me the opportunity of a driver awareness course, so now I have the option of paying the £60 fine and accepting 3 points or going to court. As you mentioned earlier the little guy in court up against the Police is unlikely to prove successful. There are however flaws with the police's statement. The timing of the incident is definately 8 minutes out and as the police have intimated my speed was recorded at 66mph by the camera, which would suggest my car speedometer would be showing 70mph. When the camera flashed my speed on the speedometer was around 58mph and as it seems to be slightly out along with most other vehicles I would suggest I was doing around 54-55mph. I've had the car for 10yrs and having driven passed a few speed awareness signs know that it does seem to be approximately 10% over what the sign is showing me. I understand this is quite common in most cars.


 


I accept that I may have been slightly over the 50mph limit and that there is no excuse even though it was at such an early hour. I was in no rush as I had over 55 mins to complete a 25 min journey. In general I would have expected to have been let off or at the very least be given the opportunityof an awareness course.


 


I'm sorry to labour the point but do you think there is any point in me writing the Police and explaining the situation.


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
The truth is that you are not likely to win a trial at court. The problem here isn't really that its a defendant against police officer but just plain that your own account involves accepting speeding.

You don't have a right to the speed awareness course. Its entirely within the discretion of the police. I must admit that I do think they need to show some form of consistency in the offers of awareness courses to avoid judicial review but you wouldn't want to go down that road. Its very expensive and not likely to succeed.

It wouldn't do any harm to write to them asking for the course.

Personally I would never pay the fixed penalty fine. You would almost certainly only get 3 points at court although the financial penalty would be higher but they might forget to summons you. That does happen sometimes. It depends how much risk you want to take though because the fines are higher.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Hi Remus,


 


Thank you again, are you saying that you wouldn't pay the fine and always risk going to court?.


 


I guess my only defence would be although I accept at the time of the flash I may have been slightly over the legal limit although if they were to check the motorway cameras around 3,09 when they say I was flashed I was actually 9-10 miles further up the road and a long way from the dual carriageway they suggest i was on. I suppose getting this evidence would prove difficult for me.


 


As you say the court case although may only result in the same 3 points the costs could be expensive. I am currently unemployed and would find any costs expensive.


 


 


 


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
I would risk going to court. Whether you want to is a matter for you.

You don't have any defence. I've covered that above.

But if they remember to summons you then you can always plead guilty by post.

If the fine is the issue for you though then you should really pay the fixed penalty. Its a more expensive affair at court but you have the chance of walking away with nothing because they may forget to summons.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


Thanks,


 


with no defence, what would you say at court. Or would you just hope they don't summon you.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
As I've said really, you just plead guilty.

you are refusing the fixed penalty in the hope they forget to summons you.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Thanks Remus,


 


I guess I have a couple of options.


 


I will write to them first and then take the court route if necessary. Thanks for your advice.I do feel I am being penalised for the wrong reason and incorrect data. I will keep you informed for reference etc.


 


regards


 


Martin

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
Yes, I think thats the right choice in your circumstances.

If you are going to write to them make surer you don't miss the deadline or they will take it to court

Let me know what happens.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.


Thanks very much once again.


 


I'll keep you posted.


 


Best Regards


 


Martin

Expert:  Jo C. replied 3 years ago.
All the best

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