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Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Traffic Law
Satisfied Customers: 69527
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice.
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Hi Jo, I was travelling in London on a dual carriage way toward

Customer Question

Hi Jo, I was travelling in London on a dual carriage way toward Tower Bridge on Aspen Way E14 road number A1261 with a 40 mph limit. At a junction where the A1261 bears away left into a single carriage way a different road Limehouse Link number A1203 commences and continues as a dual carriage way. There are two 30 mph signs on A1261 one on each side of the carriage way in the direction of travel about 30 metres before the junction with the A1203, there are no speed restriction signs on A1203 at all. There is one small speed camera sign about 200 metres further on the A1203 and that's all until you get flashed by a speed camera. I was flashed doing 38 mph. I think the signs are misleading especially if one is visiting the area and not a local resident. What regulatory speed restriction signs under TSRGD are required and where should they be placed? I've received an offer to take a speed Awareness Course and need to decide whether it's worth contesting the charge. I have been driving for 48 years, I have a clean driving licence and never had any points on my licence.
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Traffic Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Thank you for your question. My name is ***** ***** I will try to help with this.
Are you asking if this is a defence?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Yes.

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Yes

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Just to be clear, you are asking if the speed limit signs are adequate and, if not, whether that is a defence?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Yes. I understand that within 20 metres of a road junction if there is a change in speed limit there should be regulatory signs on both roads?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
All that is a bit of a myth in the light of the new caselaw.
Is this the Limehouse link underpass?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

yes, it goes into a tunnel

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
There are only three automatic speed limits in the UK. The first is 30 mph in a restricted zone signed by street lights, the second is 60 mph in a single carriageway without street lights and the third is 70 mph on a motorway. If they want to vary those limits then they need authority from the Department of Transport and they need to erect signs that amount to ‘adequate guidance’ under S85 Road Traffic Act.
I use the Limehouse Link underpass fairly regularly and obviously it doesn't have street lighting and the early part of the A13 is a much faster road.
The TSRGD used to provide a very helpful challenge to these things. Unfortunately, somebody rather stupidly appealed and it lead to the current law which is in the case of Peake. That sets down that 'adequate guidance' just means sufficient signing to alert the reasonable motorist to the reduction or increase. Before that Courts had generally accepted the perfection was required. In this instance, that almost certainly would require a sign upon entry if not entirely complete repeater signs.
If you are saying that there is no sign upon entry at all then that would be worth a challenge though.
Can clarify anything for you?
Jo
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I'm glad you know the road I've referred to. The only sign of a change of speed limit is about 30 metres before the split in then road. Ive also checked the 2014 street view on google maps that shows there are no more speed signs either on the link road or entering into the tunnel where the camera is situated. My instinct is to put up a defence as I am an experienced, careful and safe driver, and seemed to be fooled by the unclear sinage. If the challenge fails am I likely to get three points and a fine?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
I never use it from that approach so I don't know what the signs are like there. The repeaters are fairly good.
If you lose at court then you would get 3 points, a fine and costs of roughly £300.
Of course, there is a change they may forget to summons. That does happen fairly regularly.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Traffic Law
Satisfied Customers: 69527
Experience: Over 5 years in practice.
Jo C. and other Traffic Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Is there a time limit for them to summons?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No, but they have to lay an information within 6 months of the offence. The summons is usually a few weeks after that.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

In my opening question I asked "What regulatory speed restriction signs under TSRGD are required and where should they be placed?" This I understand relates to TSRGD Directive 9. You seemed to reply that this was a myth in which case is Directive 9 not valid?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
It isn't a myth. It is just been superceded by the caselaw.
That is the test for the court.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Can you site a case law reference?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
The case of Peake above.
I don't think it has been reported in a neutral citation.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

OK Thanks.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No problem and all the best.
Remember that I am always available to help with your questions. Even if I am in Court I will usually pick up a question within 12 hours. For future information, please start your question with ‘For Jo C’. You can also bookmark my profile http://www.justanswer.co.uk/law/expert-remus2004/

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