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Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Traffic Law
Satisfied Customers: 70419
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice.
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I received a penalty charge notice on private land on an industrial estate. I

Resolved Question:

I received a penalty charge notice for parking on private land on an industrial estate. I had not seen the notices as it was my 1st time there.i am an flt trainer and upon finding the company I entered the car park , 1 entrance , and found all spaces on one side full. I proceeded around a kerb/landscaped centre and onto the other side. I admit I have parked in this area but was unaware this was a permit only area.i got ticketed around 12.15pm.
I appealed to the parking company with a letter from the company I was visiting stating that an agreement was in place with the landlord that if 1st time visiting the charge would not be acted upon.wrong that said this was not correct and I had to appeal to the IAS. I gathered more evidence that the signage was not sufficient , the charge was excessive , no distinction between the 2 car parks , and the letter is relevant from the company as they have nothing to gain from writing it . (landlord would though ).
They have rejected my appeal stati
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Traffic Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Thank you for your question. My name is ***** ***** I will try to help with this.
What would you like to know about this please?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

they have rejected my appeal on the grounds of the whole car park could be permit holders only , the letter is not relevant , the charges are ok because I have entered into a contract by parking there.

I wish to know if I should carry on fighting this charge in the next step at the small claims court , what the costs of this would be , are court costs added to the penalty charge or not and would compensation be made against me.

Also I am sure that the IAS do not/ will not publicise they appeal records is this legal and why don't they ??

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Yes, they will. I would never have told you to appeal. Now they know you are reacting.
You seem to accept there were notices at the location ?
Were they visible?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

on the fence / gate into the car park they had a sign which was covered by a flyer offering spaces to rent . There was also signs on the back fences which were apprx. 30 yards away and not until I received a ticket did they become noticeable.They definitely were not clear and there was also no signs to separate the 2 car parks . (company parking area and permit holder area ) .I have photographic evidence of this which was submitted to the IAS. The response was that the whole car park could have been for permit holders. If needed I can get a letter from the company I was working at to say that is not the case and they have parking for themselves which do not require permits.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No, forget that. There is no point.
Do you have photographs of the signs with the flyers over them?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

yes I have photos of the sign with the flyer on.

This was submitted to the IAS along with others of the car park .This was to show the lack of signage .

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Oh yes, the appeals procedure is pointless. I have never known anybody succeed. It is like getting the tax man to fill out your tax returns for you.
Ultimately this is just a breach of contract claim. They say you accepted a contract by parking there and breached it by failing to display which is a legitimate argument as far as it goes.
The challenge here would be adequacy of signs. If there were flyers that obscured the signs then that is a very good challenge. It is for them to make visible their restrictions. Even if a third party places flyers over them it is for them to maintain any signs upon which they rely.
In any event though, the chances they will sue are very low. They do now know that you are responding as you have appealed so probably they will chase you more vigorously than others but the chances they will sue are still about 5%. They may. You could be unlucky. I think overall it is a risk that I would take.
Can I clarify anything for you?
Jo
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

If they do sue I should fight this case on the grounds of signage is not clear .Also that the sign which is covered is not relevant to that area.

Should there be any signage to separate the car parks ? or even markings on the floor spaces themselves to show these are for permit holders only ?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
It is not governed by the RTA so there is not really any clear rules.
However, to rely upon a contract it's terms must be clear and certain and signs that are covered with flyers are neither.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

please reply as to court costs if it goes to this.

what about if they win do I have to pay them anything else other than the penalty charge.i.e. court fees or compensation

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
£35 in court costs and about £50 in fixed solicitors costs.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

can they claim anything else apart from the actual penalty charge ?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No, they will send you letters saying that they can claim their debt collection costs but they cannot. They have a claim for the sum of the fine, costs of £35 and maybe fixed solicitors costs of £50.
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