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Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Traffic Law
Satisfied Customers: 69534
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice.
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How can I appeal the following? And which legislation covers

Customer Question

How can I appeal the following? And which legislation covers it? Many thanks
October 2013 - no insurance. 6 points and £300 fine.NIP conditional offer taken.Didn't know that company had cancelled policy due to not receiving no claims bonus.  Felt like small fish big pond.
August 2015 - no insurance6 points and £300 cost, £300 fine, £20 victim surcharge, pleaded not guilty.Exceptional Hardship accepted.Buying a new car, agreement before sale was seller buying the tax. He never did.  Paid £1200. At the time my belief was I was covered asSeller had motor trade insurance and I used my comprehensive policy to cover me 3rd party cover.I had evidence of police lying, Police allowing a 3rd party to drive uninsured. Judge said legally the car did not belong to me but as burden of proof reversed, it probably was my car so found me guilty as log book was in my name. Various laws, regulations, procedures and court order from prosecution were broken.Mis led by prosecution. Disclosure refused to defence but used in court by prosecution.Police allowed to read from statement and note book which was refused disclosure.  Even though court ordered it.Other issues.
October 2015 - speeding.3 points, £105 fine, £620 costs, £20 victim surcharge and 6 month ban.  Special reasons not accepted due to lack of medical report. (Partners pregnancy with possible rare hereditary disease). 35mph in a restricted road by truvelo camera. Procedural mistakes made by police and cps. Judge allowed cps ambush, a witness gave evidence without defence knowledge of it. ACPO was allowed by prosecution but not allowed by defence. Lack of road sinage and camera being obscured by street furniture.  ACPO & TRSRG 02 Disallowed by defence.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Traffic Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your question. My name is ***** ***** I will try to help with this.
Were you insured?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Yes. I used a comprehensive policy from another car giving me third party liability

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
was that insurance in place at the time and did it cover this specific vehicle?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

The second case of no insurance, I was covered on a different car. As I was purchasing a new car and I was under the impression that if I had permission and that the seller was insured, I would be covered. Insurance was in place for a different car (fully comp) and the new car (third party).

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Thanks.
What I need to know is this.
In relation to the first matter, were you insured?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

At the time, I should have been yes. Financially there were no problems, just a case of the company cancelling the policy due to not receiving my no claims proof. The But I still had the certificate so wouldn't that have covered me under s148/151 rta 88?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
In that case you were not insured.
There is no appeal in relation to the conviction. No insurance is an offence of strict liability. You either are or you are not. You were not. This should have been a guilty plea.
In any event, you are out of time to appeal. You had 21 days from the date of sentence to appeal. Sometimes they will allow for delay but not over two years.
It would have been possible to argue special reasons maybe. The problem I can see immediately is that they would have said that the money was not taken and so you should have pre empted that you were not insured.
I'm not sure what your challenge is to the second point? You have pleaded guilty?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Ok thank you.

Point 2.

I believed I was insured on a third party basis as legally the car did not belong to me. It was covered on the seller's side and mine. I pleaded not guilty as I wasn't the owner of the car

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Ok. So you were not insured?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Yes

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

I was insured

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Was it in force at the time and did it cover this car ?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

It allowed me to drive any other vehicle with owners consent and owner had insurance. It did, my policy covered me.

Even the judge said legally I wasn’t the owner, but as burden of proof turned to me, it probably was my car.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

And yes it was in force at the time

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
But what has whether or not the car is yours got to do with driving without insurance?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

If the car belonged to me then I would need a separate policy to cover the car.

As i didnt own the car i could drive it under my comprehensive policy and stay legal.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hyperthecially, if I drove your car (assuming you drive), what would I need to be road legal?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
The same as for any other including your own - licence, insurance, the car to be taxed and MOTed and free from any defects. There is no defence in saying the car belongs to me if you are stopped driving my car with bald tyres for instance.
If the issue is that your policy only covered other vehicles than your own then that is the problem. You had the burden of proof and did not produce evidence that the car belonged to another. Also, the allegations of lying probably didn't meet with much approval either. If this was August then you are out of time to appeal although only just. You could apply if you can prove the car belonged to another and your policy did cover it.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Its quite a grey area as its not in the law books. Or case law come to think of it. Thank you for that. And last point?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Well, that is really simple.
The terms of your insurance only covers you for cars other than your own and you couldn't prove this was not your own.
I'm not sure what your defence is to point three? You have a right of appeal automatically. The question is whether there is any point.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Speeding offence?

Procedural mistakes made by cps?

Being ambushed in court by a witness I didn't know about

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Were you speeding?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

I didn't think so at the time but guess I was. I know what you're going to say lol. But thank you for your help. Oh one more.

The sentences for 2nd no insurance and speeding. They differ quite a lot. Are they supposed to be proportionate?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
The only point you mention above that might have been a defence was the lack of signing.
Driving without insurance does carry a much higher penalty. The reason the speeding financial penalty overall is high is that there was a trial and so they have added costs. £620 is at the higher end of the Magistrates Court spectrum but this does seem to have been a contested matter.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Traffic Law
Satisfied Customers: 69534
Experience: Over 5 years in practice.
Jo C. and other Traffic Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Whilst Ive had a think, is there away to appeal against procedural errors, I.e. Court order broken and section 8 cpia request refused, but for the prosecution to use it along with items that were not on disclosure list?

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Not really.

At least, non disclosure is naughty. The remedy though is to get it listed for non disclosure before the hearing. The court will assess the reasonableness of the request though.

In terms of using evidence, they should have disclosed anything they rely on but failing to do so until the day doesn't stop them calling it. In dearness, sometimes wvidence might not come to light immediately.

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