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Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Traffic Law
Satisfied Customers: 70698
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice.
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I am asking this question on behalf of my Daughter Holly A

Customer Question

i am asking this question on behalf of my Daughter Holly
A Single Justice Procedural notice arrived by post at my house addressed to my daughter although she does not live at my house
Once I had given it to her the letter and she had read it it stated she had failed to give information relating to the identification of the driver of a vehicle ( her vehicle) when required,
The notice was dated 11 / 9 /2015.
Included in the pack was a copy of Notice of intended prosecution Dated 6th march 2015. The offence being 41mph in a 30mph limit on the 3 March 2015 at 15.15 hours asking for details of the driver whithin 28 days
I and my Daughter can confirm that this notice was not recieved
Also in the pack was a copy of a reminder notice dated 7th April 2015 again asking for the details of the driver whithin 28 days
Again MY Daughter and I can confirm we did not recieve this letter
My Daughter ticked the not guilty box on the procedural justice notice gave her current address and details, confirmed her sons father was the driver at the time of the alleged offence, included his details and address, stated she had not recieved the copy notices included in the pack, and questoned why the witness statement by a police officer included in the pack was signed but not witnessed.
She posted this on the 10th October 2015. The mistake she did make was that she thought she had 28 days to reply to the procedural justice notice when in fact she had 21 days as stated on the notice.
She could not respond immediatly because the relationship between her sons father and herself is not ideal and she needed to confirm he was in fact the driver of her car at that time and his current address, (which is very close to where the offence took place )
On Friday 16th October 2015 another letter arrived to which I gave my Daughter on the 19th October 2015 it was a notice of fine and collection dated 12th Octiober 2015. Holly rang the number on the notice explained the situation regarding the sending back of the Single Justice Procedural Notice. they agreed to suspend any action for 28 days and told her to ring the Lavender Hill Magistrates Court. In the morning.
She made several attempts to get through to the Lavender Hill Court but due to being at work the cout switchboard was so busy she was unable to get through (the address to which the recorderd delivery correspondance was returned as stated on the notice. The recorded delivery reciept dated 10th October 2015 confirms this.
On the 21st October 2015 another letter arrived addressed to Holly to which i gave her today, This was a Notice of Endorsement of Driving Record dated 12th October 2015 (6points failing to give information relating to identification of a driver)
Because Holly does not work Mondays and Fridays she spent about 2 hours on the phone this afternoon and eventually got through to Lavender Hill Magistrates Court, They informed her that they had recieved no response to her not guilty reply as a result of her recieving the single justice procedural notice
I hope I havent gone on to much but wanted to give you all the information available.
The main problem is Holly has held a full licence for 1 year and 1 month having googled the situation has she at this stage lost her licence?
I await to hear from you
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Traffic Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Thank you for your question. My name is ***** ***** I will try to help with this.
So, in short, she responded out of time? Are you asking if she has a defence?
Also, I notice you haven't yet left feedback for a previous answer so I would be grateful if you could do that now.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Jo

yes thats my question she was out of time so does she have a defence

and if so what is her position now ?

happy to leave feed back just not sure how

Robert

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No, she doesn't. At least, if it were a couple of days you could ask them to exercise their discretion but this is a long period of time. For that reason, she doesn't have a defence to failing to identify.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Since she wasn't the driver it isn't possible to offer a plea to speeding to reduce liability so the six points remain I'm afraid.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
It would have been possible to reduce costs by pleading guilty but it is too late now.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Her position now is that she has six points.Because she has been driving for less than two years that will lead to an automatic revocation.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
She isn't banned however. It just means she has to take her test again to be able to drive. Sorry if that is bad news.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

she was late replying by 7 days

she can prove it wasnt her speeding

surely thats worth an appeal Robert

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
You said above the reminder was april and she responded in October?
To be honest though, even if she was late by 7 days, it is not worth an appeal though. She was late.
If this had been dealt with at the Magistrates it would have been worth making representations with about a 10% chance. They are not going to drop it now.
Jo C. and other Traffic Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Jo
How does she go about making an appeal and once appeal has been made can she resume driving ?
Robert
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No, the DVLA will revoke anyway. She would have to succeed on appeal.
She can serve a notice of appeal within 21 days of sentence.
Or she could ask them to reopen it although she doesn't seem to deny getting the summons.
To be wholly honest, it would probably be quicker and cheaper to just take her test again.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Thank you for your help
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No problem.
All the best.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I have been reading on internet and a site is saying you can appeal to a higher a court it county court and sending a copy of the appeal to Dvla will suspend the revoking of the licence
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I have been reading on internet and a site is saying you can appeal to a higher a court it county court and sending a copy of the appeal to Dvla will suspend the revoking of the licence the site is driving ban.co.uk
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
That is a matter for the DVLA but I'm afraid I don't agree with that.
A sentence is not lapsed because a defendant appeals it until it is over turned.
The DVLA may choose to but I wouldn't rely on it.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Good Morning

Can you confirm Im on the right track with the process regarding an appeal

!)Attend the local County Court and lodge the appeal form ?

2) Include a statuatory declaration confirming the first 2 notices were not recieved pointing out all correspondance sent to wrong address?

Send Copy of County Court Appeal form to magistrates Court?

Send a copy of all documentation to DVLA ?

Keep Fingers Crossed!

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
1 No, Magistrates Court. But yes otherwise.
2 What is the relevance of this? She got it on time and didn't respond in time? Is that accepted ?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

2 ) the relevance of the statuatory declaration is to confirm that the Notice of inteded prosecution and reminder letter were not recieved ? She was 7 day late getting the reply to the procedural justice notice

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

2 ) the relevance of the statuatory declaration is to confirm that the Notice of inteded prosecution and reminder letter were not recieved ? She was 7 day late getting the reply to the procedural justice notice

The form below seems to be the one needed to fill in ?

APPEAL TO THE CROWN COURT FROM A MAGISTRATES’ COURT (Criminal Procedure Rules, rule 63.3) Case details Name of defendant: Address: If the defendant is in custody, give prison and prison number, if known. Email address: Phone: Mobile: Appeal from …………………………………. Magistrates’ Court Magistrates’ court case reference number: Appeal to the Crown Court at: This is an appeal to the Crown Court about: Give brief details of the magistrates’ court decision about which you are appealing, including the date of that decision (e.g. ‘my conviction for [offence] on [date]’, or ‘my sentence of [penalty] for [offence] on [date]’). I have asked the magistrates’ court to reconsider my case Yes No You may not need to appeal. Sometimes a magistrates’ court can change a decision which it has made, under section 142 of the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980. Ask at the magistrates’ court office. I need an extension of time for this appeal Yes No See the time limits listed below. If your appeal is late, you must answer question 1, on the other side of this form. Only the Crown Court can extend the 21 day time limit for appeal. Use this form ONLY for an appeal to the Crown Court about conviction, sentence, etc. under Criminal Procedure Rules Part 63. There is a different form for applying or appealing to the Crown Court after a magistrates’ court has made a decision about bail, under Criminal Procedure Rule 19.8. 1. Complete the boxes above and give the details required in the boxes below. If you use an electronic version of this form, the boxes will expand1 . If you use a paper version and need more space, you may attach extra sheets. 2. Sign and date the completed form. 3. Send a copy of the completed form to: (a) the magistrates’ court, and (b) the other party to the case (e.g. the prosecutor, if you are the defendant). You must send this form so as to reach the recipients not more than 21 days after:  the date you were sentenced or your sentence was deferred (whichever was earlier), if your appeal is against conviction or against a finding of guilt,  the date you were sentenced, if your appeal is against sentence, or  in any other case, the date of the order or failure to make an order about which you want to appeal. 1 Forms for use with the Rules are at: www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/criminal/formspage. 1 2 1) Extension of time (if you need one: see the notes on the front page). My appeal is late because: Explain why your appeal is late. Attach copies of any letters or other documents you want the court to see. 2) The issues in this case are: Summarise the matters of fact or law, or the reasons for sentence or other order, which are in dispute. 3) Appeal against conviction: case management in the Crown Court. Only answer these questions if you are appealing against conviction or a finding of guilt. How long did the trial last in the magistrates’ court ? Which of the prosecution witnesses in the magistrates’ court do you want to ask questions if they are witnesses again in the Crown Court ? Name them: How long do you expect the appeal to take in the Crown Court ? 4) Other applications. I am also applying for: pending my appeal, the suspension of my disqualification e.g. from driving. You can ONLY apply for the suspension of a disqualification imposed in this case. pending my appeal, bail. Give reasons for any application you are making: I want my application(s) considered by the magistrates’ court the Crown Court Each court can consider these applications. You can apply to both. Signed2 : …………………………………………… [defendant / defendant’s solicitor] Date: …………………………. 2 If you use an electronic version of this form, you may instead authenticate it electronically (e.g. by sending it from an email addres

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
OK. Please forget all of that.
1 What was the date of the incident?
2 When did she get the NIP?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

1 What was the date of the incident?

3 march 2015 (she was not the driver)

2 When did she get the NIP?

She never recieved the NIP (The first site of it was when a copy of it was included in the SJPNotice. The copy NIP was dated 6 th march 2015)

The NIP and SJP were sent to wrong address ie my home not Hollys.

Thank you Robert

Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
OK.
Where was the vehicle registered at that time?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
The vehicle was registered at my address her driving licence is her own address
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
She can always apply to set aside the conviction on this basis or make a stat dec. She might be lucky.
They could say though that it was for her to update the DVLA or keep tabs on her post at your address. In fact, there is a specific offence in not telling the DVLA where the vehicle is kept but they won't prosecute that.
There is case law that a person should keep tabs on their post even whilst abroad but actually courts don't seem to know about it all that much.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Jo
Just so understand what is to be done
1. Attend a solicitor making a stat dec that she didn't receive all the notices and the sjp being sent to wrong address?
2 apply to the court for the conviction to be set aside ?
3 send a copy of everything to DVLA ?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
No.
Go to the Magistrates that convicted first and apply for it to be set aside.
If that fails make a stat dec.
If that succeeds then there shouldn't be a need to do anything with the DVLA unless they have already revoked in which case you would have to.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
You actually have to attend the magistrates court that made the order? To apply to have a decision set aside ?
Am I right in guessing there is no actual form to get a decision set aside in a situation like this ?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 2 years ago.
Yes, you can't do it by post.
No, no particular form. Usually you just attend at about 9.15am before Court proper starts. Some courts might have specific days upon which they do these applications so it is worth phoning in advance.