How JustAnswer Works:
  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site. Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.
Ask Jo C. Your Own Question
Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Traffic Law
Satisfied Customers: 70695
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice.
12826847
Type Your Traffic Law Question Here...
Jo C. is online now

I have received 2 speeding tickets one for 37 MPH and

Customer Question

Hi, I have received 2 speeding tickets one for 37 MPH and another 3 minutes later at 41 MPH, while i admit that was speeding i did not realise there was 30 MPH speed limit. I had only bought the mini the day before and was test driving it to find out where the radiator was leaking so i wasn't really paying attention to my speed,
Assistant: Where are you located? It matters because laws vary by location.
Customer: .This is the first ticket i have had
Assistant: Has anything been filed or reported?
Customer: Lytham St Annes
Assistant: Anything else you want the solicitor to know before I connect you?
Customer: I received the first notice late september but i received another one over the weekend
Submitted: 21 days ago.
Category: Traffic Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 21 days ago.

Hi what is it you wish to know please?

Customer: replied 21 days ago.
As it was the same journey and i didn't know i had commited an offence will I be done twice, i received the first ticket late Sept but the second one arrived at the weekend
Expert:  Jo C. replied 21 days ago.

Were you speeding?

Customer: replied 21 days ago.
I have booked a driver awareness course for the first ticket but what about the second one
Expert:  Jo C. replied 21 days ago.

Were you speeding?

Customer: replied 21 days ago.
i was doing 37 for the first offence and 41 for the second, but it was 3 minutes apart, i drove up the road turned around and drove back
Customer: replied 21 days ago.
Both offences were on the 10th Aug but i only received the second one 3 days ago. Would the speed awareness course count for both tickets
Customer: replied 21 days ago.
Customer: replied 21 days ago.
Hello Jo do you have any advice
Expert:  Jo C. replied 21 days ago.

Thank you.

The speed awareness course will only cover one instance of passing the point of enforcement. If your issue here is that you may have driven past two speed cameras within close succession then I'm afraid that is not a defence.

They will probably offer a fixed penalty for the other offence unless, of course you are not suitable for a fixed penalty because you have too many other points for instance. If so then you may be lucky as they may forget to summon you.

Can I clarify anything for you?

Jo

Customer: replied 21 days ago.
i have no points, i drove past one speed camera going in different directions on the same journey,
Customer: replied 21 days ago.
what is the likely outcome, the first ticket will be cancelled due to the awareness course, but will i get 3 points for the second offence, that seems a bit harsh?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 21 days ago.

If the speeds are as you say proportionate to the limit then it would be three points and a fine of £100 and the speed awareness course on the first. I'm not sure why it would seem harsh? Those are the fixed penalties and there were two instances?

Customer: replied 21 days ago.
but as i didn't realise i was speeding on the first ticket how could i be expected to have realised 3 minutes later on the same journey. Is it worth appealing as i drive for a living and this is my first offence and i have been driving for 44 years.
Customer: replied 21 days ago.
Plus it took them an extra 6 weeks to issue the second ticket???
Expert:  Jo C. replied 21 days ago.

the issue is not whether you realised that you had been issued the first ticket but whether or not you were exceeding the speed limit.

It is not worth appealing because you have no defence at least that you are disclosing here

Customer: replied 21 days ago.
In my defence i had bought the mini the day before and had been driving a LH drive camper for 3 years before, and i was trying to discover where my radiator was leaking. The road was very wide and straight and it was early on a Sunday morning and I assumed (wrongly) that it would be a 40mph zone.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 21 days ago.

were there regular street lights?

I'm happy to continue with this but please rate my answer.

Jo C. and other Traffic Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 21 days ago.
I honestly dont know without going to look as it was the first time i had driven down the road
Customer: replied 21 days ago.
We had just driven up from Kent, relocating to Lytham.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 21 days ago.

Thank you. It is a defence to say that the speed limit signs were not adequate. However that is quite a high test. In a restricted zone they only have to sign the speed limit by displaying a regular pattern of street lighting.

Customer: replied 21 days ago.
I did not say they were inadequate, i had never driven down that road before. I was just hoping that they would take both offences together being as how they were committed minutes apart, otherwise i think the punishment is harsh for a first offence.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 21 days ago.

I do realise that was your wish but I'm afraid that just does not amount to a defensible request that they would listen to.

Come what may, you must of passed to GATT so is or other detection devices and if so then those are two separate offences.

You could try to argue that this amounts to one continuous act of driving at speed but the problem is that that is not speeding. That is driving without due care and attention and so it is not a point worth making.

Customer: replied 21 days ago.
It was not reckless driving as the conditions were perfect, a wide road with no other traffic and no pedestrians, but as you say they will not take that into account, it's just a cash cow to hammer us poor workers, you make one mistake and get punished twice. I was concerned about not blowing the engine up and was trying to get the thermostat to open to circulate the coolant so i could trace the leak.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 21 days ago.

driving at speed over a prolonged period could be considered driving without due care I'm afraid. C

Customer: replied 21 days ago.
Less than 200 m each way 7MPH and 11MPH over the limit is hardly speed at a prolonged period, still i hear your argument, much as i disagree with it. Thank you.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 21 days ago.

No problem.

Customer: replied 21 days ago.
Is it right that they must issue the ticket within 14 days as the second one took 13 weeks to arrive
Customer: replied 21 days ago.
They have stated that they issue another ticket to the registered keeper within 14 days, but i was the registered keeper as the issue of the first ticket proves?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 21 days ago.

I'm not sure what you mean?

Customer: replied 21 days ago.
view the image, they say they complied within the 14 days, however, i never received this until last weekend 3 months and 1 week after the offence, so they must have sent it to the previous keeper. But they already knew i was the registered keeper because they sent me the first notice back in September.
Customer: replied 21 days ago.
The first notice was for the 37 mph offence.
Customer: replied 21 days ago.
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=87&st=0&p=94&#entry94
In a nutshell, the first notice arrived promptly early Sept the second one took until Nov to arrive both offence occured on the same day.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 20 days ago.

Well, that is one explanation.

The other is that they wrote to you and it wasn't delivered.

the issue anybody is who was registered at the DVLA.

Customer: replied 20 days ago.
Well so now i am responsible for the non delivery of our postal sevices, it seems more logical that they sent it to the previous owner, but i'm guessing that is not enough either, did you read the pepipoo link i sent you?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 20 days ago.

No, that is not what I said.

What I said is that it would comply with their obligations. That is entirely different.

I wouldn't take much notice of pepipoo. The unqualified posters will not pay the costs order for you when you follow their advice and lose.

Customer: replied 20 days ago.
i cant see as i can win anyhow, clean licence for all these years and hammered for trying to find a radiator leak. 3 mins = 3points min £100 fine and 4 hr driving lecture, how is that fair. Fair is not a word in the police vocadbulary.
Customer: replied 20 days ago.
I should have been a drug dealer at least i would have only got a caution ;)
Expert:  Jo C. replied 20 days ago.

Actually you would have been prosecuted for possession with intent to supply or actual supply and you would have got many years custody. Simple possession may have attracted a caution.

On the face of it, you cannot win. You seem to accept speeding. You could put them to proof I suppose.

Customer: replied 20 days ago.
please explain "put them to proof", you will have to excuse my ignorance as this is the first time i have ever been involved with the courts/police.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 20 days ago.

Ask them to prove the allegation.

In fairness, they probably will but you can.