How JustAnswer Works:
  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site. Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.
Ask Dales-Electronic Your Own Question
Dales-Electronic, Home Appliance Technician
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 1484
Experience:  I am a Home Appliance / Refrigeration Technician of 25yrs+ with my own business and for multi-brand national companies.
Type Your Appliance Question Here...
Dales-Electronic is online now

Hi, Recently spotted an induction hob described as "Graded"

This answer was rated:

Hi, Recently spotted an induction hob described as "Graded" due to small cosmetic defects but fully tested and functional. Agreed a price on the phone where it was also described as tested to be serviceable which I made a point of confirming before driving a 260 mile round trip to collect it. They insisted it was fully tested before my partner and I paid them in good faith and drove off with it.
Got home read instructions, connected it and it had a logic fault which prevented half of the hob working at all!
Company have now collected it today but I am now out of pocket now for 2 reasons.
1. It had £225 off list price and they won't replace it at all with new or used aven if I paid extra for a new one!
2. We had to spend a night in a B&B at £91 and eat out £50 due to roadworks and infrastructure failure getting to their premises in Cheshire from Banbury and back. I have the receipts
They are only offering to refund the money spent ie £600 so I have lost the £225 saving and have had to pay £141 extra for nothing as their hob was not as described on the web or over the phone.
The whole sad experience has wasted a couple of days of my precious time in total and cost me £225 + £141=£366 in addition to my time and my partner's time.
Is there any way I can be compensated for their misrepresentation? Assuminng this is a trading standards issue?
Dales-Electronic :

Hello My name is Ian ~ I am not on the site constantly so please be patient whilst waiting for responses to you queries

Dales-Electronic :

Candidly I don't think you have much chance in getting anything back; whilst I fully appreciate your points there are too many variables involved that would perhaps cause you to fail. The company would adopt the policy that the item was fully functioning when you collected it and that they had no control over how it was fitted. That perhaps you damaged or caused something to fail when you installed it and that as they have given you a refund there is no contract. ie they have given you your money back. You could always try the small claims court but it would likely be difficult to prove your case. The judge would perhaps take the view that for a small amount extra the company/carrier could have delivered it. Whilst I appreciate Your frustration it might in the long run cost you more to achieve little than walking away now. ~ Ian

Dales-Electronic :

One further question 'graded' usually means that the product is covered by a manufacturers warranty be it perhaps limited to six months or so, why didn't the retailer get the manufacturer to come out and fix it for you?

Our chat has ended, but you can still continue to ask me questions here until you are satisfied with your answer. Come back to this page to view our conversation and any other new information.

What happens now?

If you haven’t already done so, please rate your answer above. Or, you can reply to me using the box below.
We are now in question and answer mode, you can ask further questions at no extra cost to you ~ Ian
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

It was sold with a 2 year warranty, I also wondered why seller didn't suggest that.

I independantly contacted the manufacturer Siemens who verified that a 2 year warranty was included. They offered to send an engineer to look at a warranty claim but said I had to pay them £95 which I would only get back if they deemed it needed fixing after their visit! I am sure it had a logic fault and have a Siemens appointment which I now need to cancel as seller sent a van to collect the hob for a refund on receipt. which should be tomorrow. I got driver to sign to say it was all present and correct before letting it go. Can't trust anybody these days sadly.

However it had been delivered I would have still had to connect it up to discover it was faulty wouldn't I? Fortunately I did that soon after purchase. I am an aircraft engineer, that thing was faulty when collected and I am pretty sure they knew that and only sold it to someone miles away willing to collect! It was also greasy and the seal was missing in places where it had torn after being stuck to a worktop so had been installed before somewhere. I queried that in the shop and they suggested an ex demo and promissed it was fully tested and working! On three counts it was not as described and I had already flagged 2 of them in the shop.

I share your anger. sadly you found yourself in a cleft stick, you had driven all that way and on arriving didn't want to drive home empty handed. You find yourself between a rock and a hard place, the sensible thing to do was to walk away when you found it to be dirty and with the seal damaged. However likely I would have done the same thing. In your situation I would make a complaint to Siemens indicating that this company is bringing their good name into disrepute and see what happens. Generally, an item that is fitted cannot be classed as graded unless it has been refurbished by a factory approved engineer/company. This would include cleaning and replacing all parts damaged ie the seal. What ever made you go for an induction hob from my experience ceramic/halogen are more reliable, cost less and are easily repaired ~ Ian
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Pleased you asked, and pleased I am not dealing with a robotSmile.

Well Ian, I stupidly took my partner to see a kitchen display locally which I thought would work for us, as I am retaining 25 year old solid oak doors and mdf cabinets (Magnet's best, ***** ***** quality like that anymore said salesman about to retire). We had a quote from local kitchen display firm for the worktops in silestone and after 4 months they baled and therein lies another story, too small a job, low hanging fruit etc anyway they never came to pattern. I have to say that, having connected induction hob in parallel with our 25 yr old ceramic, induction was 3x faster and I timed it. Funny though despite being simillar total wattage, wires were much smaller cross section about 1/4? So stuck with finding another metal coloured siemens induction hob I am afraid, can you believe the £95 call out for warranty repair? Is that industry standard? Thought a £225 saving was worth the drive. I will contact Siemens and lay it on. Maybe they will send me a new one for that price. There is a £130 free accessory promotion offer on our hob only if bought new and not graded item too so no big deal in reality.

25 year Neff ceramic w/o fault, New Siemens induction graded and logic fault eh? Makes me wonder is this progress?!

Well you either like them or you don't, personally I like to have something that I can work on and repair, whilst Bosch Siemens Neff make some of the best induction hobs with all of them it more a case of changing parts rather than actual fault finding. Must be my age but I get more satisfaction out of actually finding a faulty component rather than just changing a board. To be honest the £95 is quite good these days there are many other companies that are much more expensive. The great thing is that they usually warranty the repair for 12 months. Between we two I think what has happened is that this company sold this item and it was returned either because the customer didn't like it or it was as you say faulty. I cant see anyway in which BSH would cover a warranty call on an item that had previously been registered.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Interesting so are you saying the warranty was definitely never registered with Siemens which is why they told me it had the full 2 years so I was the fist to give them that FD number for that Enr numbered device?

Let me clarify, the ENr is the full factory product code that allows a factory to produce the same model but with slight modifications or upgrades. It also allows them to specifically be aware of which part fits which product run. The FD number is ***** way that they can tell when the product was produced sometimes to the day but more commonly to the week of a particular year. So if Siemens asked for the FD number it was just to clarify that the product was within their warranty period had the product not previously been registered by guarantee return. This is quite common where people get a built in kitchen and think that the kitchen company will register appliances. From a customer point of view a little bit of elbow grease and a new seal and you would have been non the wiser Siemens would have been called in fixed the appliance and everyone would have been happy. Sadly you didn't want to play this game and it when pear shaped. Neither of us can be sure of the actual facts but having been in the trade for a long time and retailing out products too I would have been upfront with you and told you the hobs history ~ not the way to keep customers, just out of interest who did you buy it off?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

All Your Appliances, Winsford Cheshire, invoice also says sales at hob discounted to £718 on line and they accepted £600.

OK leave it with me ~I'll have a sniff around and see what I can find out about them, best I go off and do some more work, could you kindly rate my service so that I can shut this one down, you can still come back and chat, it just allows me to clear it off the front page here ~ speak to you soon ~ Regards Ian
Dales-Electronic and other Appliance Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Spoke to Siemens, "We are just a manufacturer", they said. and I am just a customer who has been let down by you and your supplier was my parting shot! Not slightest bit interested as to where I got the defective warrantied item fromSurprised.

Will email company once they have refunded our payment.


OK could you now rate my service so I can clear the screen. Thanks ~ Ian