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Ed Turner
Ed Turner,
Category: Employment Law
Satisfied Customers: 1241
Experience:  Director and Consultant Solicitor (Self-Employed) at Ed Turner LLB Limited
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Ben, hope you're well :) I'm trying to help my daughter,

Customer Question

Hi Ben, hope you're well :)I'm trying to help my daughter, who's 18 and was fired from an apprenticeship 2 days ago (27/11/19) which was a NVQ level 2 in child care.Her signed " apprenticeship agreement" was signed by her, and the employer on the 8/11/19 (but is dated 28/10/19)She has been having weekly meetings with her manager. The only "negative" has been that during the first week she was asked to jump in puddles and she asked if she could take photos instead as she only had her best shoes on, which they appeared fine at the time, however later this was raised as a negative, and she purchased wellies for the job. Since then, all weekly meetings with her direct manager have been positive.Originally she worked 5 days a week, and last week they had a meeting with her, again telling her she was doing great and that 5 days is a lot combined with the course learning, so they are really pleased and taking her down to 3 days a week at the nursey. They also arranged for her to start training on Tue evenings starting 3/12/19 and they have paid for her to be DBS checked which she is now.On the 27/11/19 managers said they would see my daughter tomorrow, but was then told the "big boss" that is rarely at the place of work, wanted a talk with her. SHe then told her that they wanted someone that is willing to do everything she is asked and she's heard she is refusing to do certain things. My daughter asked for an example which they couldnt give and said its not personal but we need to let you go.They didnt give her copies of the contracts she signed at the time. I requested these 2 days ago which arrived today, they have not sent everything my daughter signed but she cant recall what the other papers were about.They sent...1. apprenticeship agreement - signed by both my daughter and the employer on the 8/11/19 - it states...start date of apprenticeship = 28/10/19
end date of apprenticeship = 28/01/20start data of practical period = 28/10/19
estimated end date of the practical period = 28/01/20duration of practical period 3 months
planned mount of off the job training = N/Athe contract states..."This contract of training and employment is valid for 18 months after starting the NVQ training in level 2 childcare. Sign up will commence once the initial three month assessment period has been completed.During the first three months the apprentice will meet weekly with the mentor and monthly with the setting manager, to discuss progress and to complete work in their induction file.On completion of the induction file and if the apprentice has shown commitment to the role and potential to reach the high standard expected at BUSINESS NAME, they will be signed to the NVQ level 2 and offered a full apprenticeship contract.Failure to meet the criteria will result in the dismissal of the apprentice with immediate effect.2. Three month contractcontract starts 28/10/19
contract ends 28/1/19 (this is what they put, i assume they meant 2020)
date = 30/10/19
signed by my daughter and the employerthe contract states..."This is a three month contract given on the first day of employment and will expire on the date written below.""The named member of staff will be supervised and assessed within the three months to see if they are suitable for the below position.""Within this time period both the management of BUSINESS NAME and the named person can terminate the position with no explanation and no notice to serve. After three months, a permanent contract will be offered."My questions are...1. when i search online about firing an apparent, I'm seeing many sites say the employer can only fire an apprentice due to gross misconduct - she was offered 2 other placements at other child care businesses however if she goes back to them saying she was fired and has no idea why, they will assume gross misconduct so be very unlikely to hire her.2. Are they able to do what they've done ? she loved working there, we know 2 people that work there, 1 is a manager and they are all shocked she's gone. It appears the "big boss" just came in, took a disliking and fired her.3. are there any official apprenticeship governing bodies we can check if this is how they can behave, as we’ve also read there should be a traffic light system, and in the meetings with her manager it has only been positive.Many many thanks in advance, Scott.
Submitted: 7 months ago.
Category: Employment Law
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
sorry there were a few typos in my message - also wondering, as the 3 month contract had the wrong date on, ie it starts on the 28/10/19 but ends on the 28/1/19 does this mean its invalid ? thanks so much for your help on this, our ideal outcome would be to show they cant just fire without reason so they have to take her back :)
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
i've also added photos of the documents we've got from them :)
Expert:  Virtual-mod replied 7 months ago.

I've been working hard to find a Professional to assist you with your question, but sometimes finding the right Professional can take a little longer than expected.

I wonder whether you're ok with continuing to wait for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will continue my search. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you.

Thank you!
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
hi, yeah i'm fine to wait thanks for your help :)
Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 7 months ago.
I apologise as we have not yet been able to find a Professional to assist you. Do you wish for me to continue to search for someone to assist you or would you like for us to close your question at this time?
Thank you for your patience,
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
hi, if you dont mind trying to find someone else that would be great thanks :)
Expert:  Ed Turner replied 7 months ago.

Hello. I am Ed, a Solicitor qualified in England & Wales with over a decade’s experience in the legal profession advising clients.

I specialise in Commercial Contracts, Business Transactions, Employment, Dispute Resolution, Personal Injury and Road Traffic Law and will be able to resolve your legal problem today.

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
thanks so much Ed :)
Expert:  Ed Turner replied 7 months ago.

I have read through the contract and your detailed instructions.

Apprentice Contracts are very difficult to terminate from the employer's point of view. In fact, even Gross Misconduct may not be enough!

The main risk is the probationary period clause, so there may be scope for the employer to argue that they had the right to terminate after three months.

Expert:  Ed Turner replied 7 months ago.

It appears to me that your daughter have an arguable case that she was Wrongfully Dismissed.

A claimant has three months from the date of dismissal to lodge an ET1 Claim Form with the Central Tribunal Office. This is a very strict and very short time limit, so if you want to bring a claim, I strongly recommend that you act immediately.

You must notify the government's employment Advice Conciliation and Arbitration Service (ACAS) to commence their Early Conciliation Process (ECP), which is mandatory. The ACAS ECP will “freeze” the three-month limitation deadline to issue Tribunal proceedings. During the ECP, ACAS will attempt to facilitate a Settlement Agreement between the employer and employee.

Expert:  Ed Turner replied 7 months ago.

I hope this resolves your enquiry. Please revert to me if you have any further questions and I will be delighted to assist.

Otherwise, I shall be grateful if you will please mark your enquiry as “Closed” and give me a “Positive” rating in order to conclude this matter.

Kind regards