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Ben Jones
Ben Jones, UK Lawyer
Category: Employment Law
Satisfied Customers: 77784
Experience:  Qualified Employment Solicitor
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I work for redbridge institute of Adult education teacher

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i work for redbridge institute of Adult education teacher couple of hours a week pilates with a full capacity class over subscribed. I started working there 2003. The college principal is saying No local government funding for leisure classes any more so my class will close giving me 8 weeks notice. The principal says this is NOT A REDUNDANCY and there are jobs on the web for the college, none of which i have the qualifications for. My question is that this should BE A REDUNDANCY should it not????
JA: Have you discussed this with a manager or HR? Or with a lawyer?
Customer: HR came down not very helpful and said does not think it comes under redundancy. Manger says he don't know. and No not spoken to a lawyer.
JA: What is your employment status? Are you an employee, freelancer, consultant or contractor? Do you belong to a union?
Customer: No don't belong to a union. I am employed by the redbridge institute and paid by local council. i started there 1989 as office worker three days a week. in 2015 i was made redundant from that post but carried on in my other post as a teacher two hours a week, recently one hour a week, from 2003 as a teacher of pilates.
JA: Is there anything else the Lawyer should know before I connect you? Rest assured that they'll be able to help you.
Customer: not that i can think off
Hello, I’m Ben, an employment solicitor, and it’s my pleasure to assist you. I may ask for some information first to determine the legal position.

Is obtaining a qualification for any of the available jobs a possibility? 

I also wanted to make you aware that this is not always an instant service, due to various legal engagements I could have and I may not be able to reply immediately. However, rest assured that I am dealing with your query and will get back to you as soon as I can. Thanks.

Customer: replied 8 days ago.
No possibility of gaining a qualification!

Thank you very much for clarifying. Are you an employee or self-employed?

Customer: replied 8 days ago.
Self employed with them

And were you expecting redundancy payment if being made redundant in these circumstances?

Customer: replied 8 days ago.
Customer: replied 8 days ago.
But there not using the word redundant
Customer: replied 8 days ago.
there saying I can carry on in hall free of charge for a year
Customer: replied 8 days ago.
But that’s not what I want you can’t just tell someone there class is closing but there not redundant
Customer: replied 8 days ago.
Can they and not pay me a redundancy

Thank you very much for clarifying. First of all, I am sorry to hear about the issues brought up by this. It must be a frustrating situation to go be going through.

Under normal circumstances, this would be a redundancy situation. According to Section 139 of the Employment Rights Act 1996, redundancy occurs if a dismissal is wholly or mainly attributable to one of the following circumstances:

1. Business closure – the whole of the employer’s business is closed

2. Workplace closure – closure or relocation of the actual workplace where the employee worked

3. Reduced requirement for employees to carry out work of a particular kind

Generally, redundancy occurs when an employer decides to reduce the number of its employees, either within the business as a whole, or within a particular site, business unit, function or job role. There are various reasons why this may happen, such as economic pressure, changes in the nature of products/services offered, internal reorganisation, workplace relocation, etc.

However, when it comes to rights on redundancy and receiving redundancy pay, these only apply to employees. Therefore, if you are genuinely self-employed, you do not have the legal right to receive any redundancy pay, even if this was a redundancy situation.

I fully appreciate that this may not be the answer you were hoping for, however it is the legal position. Should you need any further clarification, I will be more than happy to discuss things further with you. Thank you

Customer: replied 8 days ago.
But I am employed by them for the one to sometimes two hours I teach a week! Redbridge council
Customer: replied 8 days ago.
Redbridge institute of adult education employ me and the redbridge council pay me!
Customer: replied 8 days ago.
Iam self employed and work three to four hours a week for others nothing to do twitch the institute!

Ok but my question above was whether you are self-employed and your answer was ‘self-employed with them’ – so are you self-employed or an employee with them?

Customer: replied 8 days ago.
Am employee with them since 1989 as office worker! Then 2003 as Tutor! Teaching two hours aweek to date ! Recently one hour every week in term time so about thirty five weeks! This being regular since 2003
Customer: replied 8 days ago.
Thirty five weeks each year
Customer: replied 8 days ago.
Nineteen years of teaching for them

ok so when you transitioned from office worker to tutor, did you remain an employee, or become self-employed?

Customer: replied 8 days ago.

Ok so as explained earlier, this is a redundancy situation. As part of a fair redundancy procedure, employers are required to offer suitable alternative employment to those employees who are at risk of redundancy. The objective is to avoid having to make them redundant and keep them in a suitable job, even if they have been made redundant from their original one.

Just because jobs are available does not mean this is not a redundancy and there are still further factors to consider.

Once an offer is made and subject to any successful selection, there are two possible outcomes:

- The employee accepts the offer – in this case their employment will continue in the new role and there would be no redundancy

- The employee rejects the offer – this should only happen if the job is not suitable and the employee reasonably rejects it. If these conditions are not met, they risk forfeiting their redundancy pay as they would be considered to have resigned instead.

As mentioned, there are two elements to a successful rejection – reasonableness and suitability. Reasonableness is based on the subjective reasons the employee has for rejecting it, such as personal circumstances, health, family commitments, etc. In the end, the main question is whether considering the particular circumstances, the employee acted reasonably in rejecting this offer.

Suitability is based on both objective and subjective criteria, with the most common factors that could make an offer unsuitable being:

- Job content/status – drop in status or significant changes in duties, which do not match the employee’s skills, experience and qualifications

- Pay and other benefits – significant drop in earnings/benefits (e.g. basic pay, bonuses, overtime, commission, etc)

- Working hours – change in shift pattern, significant extension/reduction of working hours

- Location – new workplace location, with an increased commute, making it unreasonable to travel there

- Job prospects – going from permanent to temporary or fixed-term work

Finally, where an offer of alternative employment has been made and its terms and conditions are different to the employee's current terms, they have the right to a 4-week trial period. This is an opportunity for both employer and employee to determine its suitability. If during the trial period they decide that the job is not suitable they should tell their employer straight away and terminate the trial period. Assuming the offer was not suitable and was reasonably rejected, they should still be made redundant from their original job and receive redundancy pay.

Customer: replied 7 days ago.
Thank you

You are most welcome. If you have any further questions about this, please do not hesitate to get back to me and I will be happy to help. All the best.

Ben Jones and other Employment Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 7 days ago.
Can you please send me all the correspondence we have had together i would really appreciate that.

I cannot send anything directly unfortunately – all our correspondence ins right here on this page and you can copy and paste it as you wish, or access it any time on your account on the site

Customer: replied 7 days ago.

You are most welcome and all the best.

Customer: replied 5 days ago.
I would like to terminate all correspondence for now please so that I do not have to pay any subscription other then the £5 I have already paid! Can you respond thanks for all your help to date x
Customer: replied 5 days ago.
Thanks Ben jones for all your help great and I will recommend just answer! Take care

Hello, I am just an independent user on this site, in the same way as you are, which means that unfortunately I have no involvement in the billing side of things. If you need to query anything to do with billing, charges or membership, you may be able to take certain actions by going to your account on this site. Alternatively, please contact the site’s customer service team directly. You can find their contact details by following this link: Hopefully, they will resolve any issues you have to your satisfaction.