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Brendan Joseph
Brendan Joseph, Consultant
Category: Genealogy
Satisfied Customers: 1185
Experience:  Brendan has worked as an expert for Ancestry.com specialising in Irish / British/ Canadian / Australia/ American research.
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My mother was born at the Rotunda in in 1921. Her birth was

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My mother was born at the Rotunda in Dublin in 1921. Her birth was registered by a non related informant present at her birth, not either parent. Why wouldn't her parents register her birth? How can I verify that the details of her parents are correct?
JA: The Genealogist will know what to do. Is there anything else important you think the Genealogist should know?
Customer: Name of mother is listed as Patricia Churchill, formerly Churchill but the father is listed as ***** ***** with an address in Dublin and profession given. Are they likely to be married?
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
Do the parents have to sign a document to confirm the details on the birth certificate are correct
Hello,

I've been working hard to find a Professional to assist you with your question, but sometimes finding the right Professional can take a little longer than expected.

I wonder whether you're ok with continuing to wait for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will continue my search. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you.

Thank you!

Hello there,

Welcome to Just Answer, my name is***** will be researching your question today.

Brendan

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
Thanks
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
When will you be able to phone me?

Hello there,

Ignore the phone call it does not work in Ireland

I live in Ireland and I have a good bit of experience of baby's born in the Rotunda.

Baby's born in the Rotunda were usually registered the day they were born or the next day.

A lot of the babies were registered with no forename, registered as either male or female

Do you have a copy of the birth certificate

Brendan

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
I thought I had sent it yesterday
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
But I can answer any questions on it. It is a certified copy from 1936 but my mother was born in 1921
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
The birth was 6 May 1921 and it was registered on 20th May

Hello there,

Looks like it was not registered by the hospital.

Normally single mother births do not have the name of the father on the certificate.

That was civil registration law.

I have seen birth certificates where the father was listed/

I have checked the marriage records for Ireland and England

No Churchill / Watson marriage.

What was ***** *****'s occupation?

Brendan

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
All the columns on the certificate are completed. Birth date, 6 May1921 Rotunda, name Marguerite, female, fathers name ***** ***** at***** mother's name Patricia Churchill formerly Churchill, fathers profession was weaver Forman, registered by an AM Rollo who was present at the birth Rotunda, registered on 20 May 1921, signed by registrar J H McAnley. The certified copy has initialed by the copier, checker and examined by different people
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
is listed as a weaver

Hello there,

Her birth was registered as Marguerite Churchill, I can see it in the records.

It must have been a single mother birth, if they were married it would have been Marguerite Watson.

Were they Catholic?

Brendan

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
I had always thought my grandmother was Scottish, her name being ***** *****. However when searching through Scottish records I found a Frances ***** ***** who had an illegitimate child, my aunt Veronica ( Mary Margaret ***** *****) who was 6 years older than my mother, born 28 Feb191
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
my mother was Catholic
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
I presumed the lady I knew as my grandmother had married a Watson, but actually her maiden name was Watson
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
Where can I view or get a copy of the record that you can see.
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
if ***** ***** is on the certified copy, was his name added later?

Hello there,

The reason I asked that question was that the nurses of the Rotunda used to bring the newborn bapies

down to the Pro Cathedral on Marlborough Street Dublin to be baptised.

You can request a copy from the church, usually takes a week, costs 10 euro,

Brendan

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
the Watson family were catholic, is the cathedral you mention Protestant?

Maybe you have just hit it on the head.

***** ***** was added in later

The birth was legally registered 1921

First name(s) Marguerite

Last name Churchill

Registration year1921

Registered quarter/year Apr - Jun 1921

Registration district Dublin North

Volume 2

Page 483

Mother's last name (original)-

County Dublin

CountryIreland

Record setIrish Births 1864-1958

CategoryLife Events (Birth, Marriage, Death)

SubcategoryCivil Births

Collections fromIreland

Brendan

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
If added later, can I find out when and would he be legally liable for her if added to the birth certificate

Hello there,

The Pro Cathedral is Catholic

99% of Rotunda baptism records were baptised there

You can order the 1921 birth certificate online

Brendan

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
Ok thanks - I thought Pro meant Protestant!
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
how can I find out if Patricia Churchill is a different person to the lady I thought of as my grandmother, ***** ***** (first name actually Frances)
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
I couldn't find any reference to a Patricia Churchill in Irish records
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
But I am no expert
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
My mother was brought up as Marguerite Watson in Hawick

Hello there,

They may have not married, they may have been living together.

Brendan

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
Unfortunately my mother died in 1963 when I was only 6 and my father doesn't know much about her family. He presumed the lady who brought her up was her mother.so can I conclude that there definitely was a Patricia Churchill and it was her real name

Hello there,

I cannot find Patricia in Irish BMD records.

I have also checked the newspaper archives

I wonder was there a mistake when the birth was being registered

What age was your mother when she died

Brendan

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
my mother was 42/43 years. She died in Ashton under lyne on 14 July 1963
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
Or so I believe.

Hello there,

Have you a death date for Patricia?

Just dropping my family into town

"The sound of music"

Talk with you later

Brendan

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
My mother told my father she came to Scotland when she was very young, implying with her father to live in Hawick. He died when she was about 8. I don't have a death date for Patricia Churchill but my grandmother Frances ***** ***** died in approx 1972. I haven't looked for her death certificate but she died in Hawick. Thank you for all your help so far, it's much appreciated,
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
I suppose I really want to find out if the lady I thought of as my grandmother really was, would she go to Ireland and use another name for the birth I.e Churchill. She already had an older illegitimate daughter, with no father listed on the birth certificate so it seems odd to go somewhere else. However the alternative is that there really was a Patricia Churchill who had a child with ***** ***** who was possibly related in some way to my 'grandmother'. I cannot find a death record for a ***** ***** in Hawick in Scotland if he really did come over to live there.
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
FYI my mother's middle name was Churchill so she was known as Marguerite Churchill Watson in Scotland where she grew up.
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
How can I know when the fathers name was added to the birth certificate? If there was a mistake and my mother should have been registered as Watson, how can I know

Hello there,

Do you have a death record for your grandmother?

Brendan

Hello there,

There is an option that Patricia was a widow when she married.

Her husband may have died in the war, she would have married ***** ***** under her married name.

Her maiden name would have been on the birth certificate

Mary Irwin is the contact in the Pro Cathedral

Her email is:

***@******.***

They carry out searches Monday and Tuesday

She usually charges 10 euro

Brendan

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
Thank you, ***** ***** your family enjoyed the Sound of Music. I I'll look for a death certificate and get back to you.

Hello There,

The death certificate should give her age.

We will then know what year she was born

Brendan

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
HiI have my grandmothers death certificate, it states that she was single. Her name was Frances ***** ***** and she was born on 8January 1882. It appears that she never married. If she was tmy mother's mother, then she would have appeared on my mother's birth certificate as ***** *****. If the father is ***** *****, then to hide any illegitimacy it would make sense to me to state the mother's name was Watson, formerly Watson as this would be the same name as the father even if they never married. So if Churchill really was the maiden name of my mother's mother, it cannot be the person I knew as my grandmother unless she made up the name Churchill. I have sent an email to the ProCathedral requesting baptism records and how to pay but I have not had a response yet. If I don't get anything, is there any point sending for another birth certificate? Will it just be the same as I had before? Can I ask if there was an amendment to add the fathers name? Is the only way to view the original to go to Dublin and look up the records from 1921?
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
Did parents have to sign a register for the birth certificate. Can I view this in Dublin?
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
What extra could I learn by directly searching the records in Dublin?

Hello there,

The birth would have been registered by the Rotunda hospital.

Mary Irwin is on holidays this week

You can order the original birth certificate online

First name(s) Marguerite

Last name Churchill

Registration year1921

Registered quarter/year Apr - Jun 1921

Registration district Dublin North

Volume 2

Page 483

https://www2.hse.ie/services/births-deaths-and-marriages/get-certificates/ordering-certificates.html

Order the uncertified copy it is a photocopy of the original, costs 4 euro

If any later changes have been made they will be noted on the side of the certificate

There is no need to travel to Dublin

Brendan

Hello there,

I am organising to have the birth cert picked up

Brendan

Hello there,

You can give me a bonus of 4 euro

Birth cert attached

Brendan

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
I am very happy to pay you this bonus - if I can work out how. I joined Just answer on a 7 day trial basis but will be happy to pay the full subscription as you have provided excellent service, far above my expectations. I have an email notifying me of a monthly charge after 7 days, but I cannot see how to actually pay you the bonus
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
I have contacted the site to try to find out how to pay you

Hello there,

I have located Michael Churchill, he was living in Dublin 1901, 1911

He was a weaver in Drogheda, he married and had children

He worked in the Greenmount and Boyne Linen Company

Drogheda Independent 1884-current, Friday, April 11, 1980; Page: 13

Churchill — The wife_, brother and sister of the late Michael Churchill. 8 Sandyford Terrace, wish to thank most sincerely ***** ***** who sympathised with them in their recent sad bereavement, all those who sent Mass cards_, letters of sympathy and floral tributes, those who attended the removal of remains, Requiem Mass and funeral. They wish to express a special thanks to the parochial clergy, the management and staff of Messrs. Mitzi Ltd., the employees of the former Oreenmount and Boyne Co., and all their neighbours and friends who helped in every way. They trust this will be accepted in grateful appreciation. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass has been offered for the intentions of all.

Brendan

Sorry probably no children

Brendan

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
Thanks for the copy of my mother's birth certificate. This shows it was registered on 14 May 1921. The certified copy I have from 1936 shows a different name for her father, as ***** ***** and the mother as Patricia Churchill, formerly Churcill. The fathers address is the same though as are all the other details except that in the later copy the fathers occupation is still weaver but rank is given as Forman. I cannot see the side of the form on the photo you sent me. Can you check if there was an amendment please? Otherwise how can I account for the differences between the certified copy from 1936 and the original you just sent?

Hello there,

That is definitely the correct birth certificate for Marguerite.

As Patricia was Watson and did not marry Michael Churchill it was changed at

a later stage to Marguerite Watson, no amendment on the original certificate

Brendan

Brendan Joseph, Consultant
Category: Genealogy
Satisfied Customers: 1185
Experience: Brendan has worked as an expert for Ancestry.com specialising in Irish / British/ Canadian / Australia/ American research.
Brendan Joseph and other Genealogy Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
Thank you Brendan. Does this mean that the 1936 copy that I have is incorrect? Who will have changed her name at a later stage to Watson? Would it be an afficially recorded change?
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
If so, where can I find the evidence?
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
Sorry I hadn't understood how the site worked and how you are reimbursed. I have now rated you and added a bonus. Hopefully it will get to you!
Customer: replied 7 months ago.
If Michael Churchill is named on the birth certificate and they were not married, would he have been consulted and had to agree to his name appearing? Could he have agreed for my mother to have his surname?

Hello there,

The 1921 birth record was registered by the Rotunda.

Patricia must have given them the information, she may not have consulted Michael

To change the information on a birth certificate you have to make a statutory declaration.

This declaration must be approved by the registrar general.

We have two birth certs for the one person !!!

Brendan

Hello there

Thank you very much for your kind rating and very generous bonus.

You can always come back to me

The next time I am in the GRO I will check out the records

Brendan

Customer: replied 7 months ago.
Thank you Brendon, I would appreciate all your help so far. If you could check the GRO records that would be very kind of you. If I want to come back to you then how do I ask for you in person?

Hello there,

Just say question for Brendan

I live in Dublin

Brendan