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Nicola-mod, Moderator
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 21
Experience:  Moderator
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hi my business partner and I have run a pub as tenants for

Customer Question

hi my business partner and I have run a pub as tenants for 3and a half years, we have now left but have had some shockin news regarding fixture and fittings!! when we first took over we payed a bond of 5000 pounds and took a loan agreement with the brewery for 23000 pounds for the fixtures and fittings at a payment of 100 per week.
unfortunately for us we believed the brewery when they told us the pub was turning over 4500 per week, after doing costings for bills beer etc it looked like the income would easily pay 100 pound per week for fixtures and fittings!! how wrong we were in the first six months the pub was only generating just short of 2000 per wk which obviously put us further in debt to the tune of 15000 pounds. after lengthy discussions with brewery they told us to ignore fixtures and fittings payments as it would never get paid and to be aware they belong to the brewery not us and to concentrate on paying the 15000 debt owed so we carried on. we have now just left the pub yesterday 27/06/13 and upon meeting with brewery they have billed us 20,000 pounds for fixtures and fittings saying it is still owing and they belong to us yet they have sold them to the new tenant!! are we still liable to pay this 20,000. we have paid the 15000 debt.
regards XXXXX XXXXX stressed ex landlord
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  leanne-jones replied 4 years ago.

leanne-jones :

Hello - my name is Leanne and it will be my pleasure to assist you today.

leanne-jones :

Did they put anything in writing about the f&f about not bothering?

JACUSTOMER-bhj5gz97- :

unfortunately not it was all verball they recently did a small refurb and cut a few large tables in half to make drinkin stands and said they could this as fixtures and fittings remain the property of the brewey

leanne-jones :

Did anyone else witness the conversation? Are F&F included in the lease?

JACUSTOMER-bhj5gz97- :

we only took out a tenantcy agreement my business partner was there and also the builders as the area manager instructed them to cut them

leanne-jones :

Ok. Is it included in the agreement about f&f?

JACUSTOMER-bhj5gz97- :

when we met the brewery before sign up day f&f was dismissed as they said we"ll get you in and sort a loan agreement after, im sorry but I cant find agreement at moment to answer you question.

JACUSTOMER-bhj5gz97- :

hi Leanne im aware you have stepped out of chat I have to go and pick the kids up I will be back soon thank you regards tony

leanne-jones : Ok. Let me know if you get the agreement and see if f&f are included.
JACUSTOMER-bhj5gz97- :

tenantcy agreement seems to state f and f remain the property of brewery unless paid for in full

Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 4 years ago.

I'm very sorry but leanne-jones is no longer available to answer questions. I've been working hard to find another Professional to assist you with your question, but sometimes finding the right Professional can take a little longer than expected.

I wonder whether you're ok with continuing to wait for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will continue my search. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you.

Thank you!
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

I would like to continue with questions please

Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 4 years ago.

We will continue to look for a Professional to assist you.

Thank you for your patience,
Expert:  James Mather replied 4 years ago.

I have been asked to look at
this for you.

You are quite right in what
you say in that they cannot seek the money from you and you claim that you all
the money but still sell the FF to a new buyer. They cannot have it both ways
but no doubt, they will try.

If fixtures and fittings are
said, in the agreement, to belong to the brewery, until paid for in full, then
they own the FF. Not you. They are entitled to sell them.

It does not get you off the
hook however but it does get you off the hook for a large chunk of that debt.

The situation now is that you
are in breach of contract to purchase the fixtures and fittings and they are
relying on their retention of title clause (where it states that they remain
the property of the brewery until paid for).

They are not entitled to

What they are entitled to is
compensation/damages if they had to sell them at a reduced price.

So what you want from them is
to know how much they sold them to the new tenant for. If it was less than
£20,000, they are entitled to the balance.

If they will not tell you,
you are entitled to apply to court for a court order to compel them to let you
have a copy of that agreement so that you can see how much they were sold for.

Of course, they will say
would lose in this went to court because they are not going to say that they
would lose and you would win!


Does that answer the
question? I am happy to answer specific points.

Can I help further?

don't forget to positively rate my answer J service
(even if it was not what you wanted to hear).

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please ask.

The thread
does remain open for me to answer follow-up questions.

I am
offline shortly until later and will pick this up then if needed.

Expert:  Nicola-mod replied 4 years ago.

Just a quick reminder, there is an unrated answer waiting for you here from the Professional.

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Thank you,