How JustAnswer Works:
  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site. Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.
Ask Jo C. Your Own Question
Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 71051
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice
Type Your Law Question Here...
Jo C. is online now

I admit I was parked in an area with a sign stating that there

This answer was rated:

I admit I was parked in an area with a sign stating that there was no loading between certain hours directly outside my restaurant that I have been operating since 2002 in Exeter Cathedral Yard. On the day in question I drove my car in, laden with the tools and equipment required to paint my restaurant and a traffic warden arrivedat 15:47, 43 minutes before the loading restriction ended. The warded told me to move my car and I asked him to let me put my tools in the restaurant and lock up before I move the car. To this he replied there is no time to unload and he gave me a ticket. This was after an observation period of one minute. By the time the ticket was applied and he took the photo the care was empty as demonstrated by his photograph. When I suggested that there was a fine line between doing a job and being a jobsworth he answered me with Whatever! I know I cannot prove this but I must mention that during the entire episode the guy had a look of enormous gratification on his face and it was clear that he was taking too much pleasure from hurting a local business owner. To cut a long story short he returned after 13 minutes and applied a second ticket. I have appeales both PCNs and botzh appeals were rejected. My issue is that the application of a second ticket was too harsh and surely it must be illegal. In addition, in the response from the council they said that the warden had reported me as aggressive and this is an absolute lie as I remained calm throughout the episode. Since the rising bollard became inoperable there has been no advice to local businesses as to how to proceed with vehicle access to cathedral yard for essential repairs. In addition during that day our neighbouring restaurant was in and out of the cathedral yard without prosecution and they use the cathedral yard every evening as a car park for their customers. There is in fact traffic in and out of the yard all day every day servicing the hotel and other businesses. Please help!
Thank you for your question. My name is ***** ***** I will try to help with this.
What would you like to know about this please?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Do I have any grounds to further appeal on the grounds that

1) The warden was wrong to issue two tickets in quick succession

2) Given that the mechanical bollard is now decommissioned yet there was no updated process provided by the council for gaining access to the yard between 10:30 and 16:30 for maintenance

3) Others are allowed access to the yard without prosecution on a daily basis

Who is the issuer?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Devon County Council

Ok. What is th contravention code?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

code 02 on both PCNs

Those are right then.
So was loading prohibited at this particular time?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.


There is no way around that then.
But they issued two fines within 15 mins for the same offence?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

yes and that is my issue....

Ticket 1 observed from 15:47 to 15:48

Ticket 2 observed from 16:01 to 16:03

For exactly the same offence?
Did you move and come back?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

No I did not move and come back and yes it was exactly the same offence

What do they say about this in the rejection of your representations?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Dear Mr Shaw

Thank you for your correspondence received on 02/07/2015 which has been dealt with as an informal challenge, in accordance with the Traffic Management Act 2004.

The information that you have provided has been carefully considered as well as the circumstances surrounding the issue of the penalty charge notice. The Council regrets having to disappoint you but your informal challenge has not been accepted in this instance.

The Council must advise that your vehicle was parked in a location subject to a restriction where loading is not permitted 10.00am-4.30. The traffic sign conveying this restriction was located immediately in front of your parked vehicle, as shown in the photograph below.

An observation period to determine whether loading or unloading was taking place was not required as such activity was patently in contravention of the parking restriction in force.

The Council acknowledges your claim that our officer was unhelpful and rude. In reply the Council must advise that our officer’s notes record that your own manner was aggressive and abusive. This matter will be forwarded to the Operations Team Leader for further investigation.

At the Council’s discretion a payment at the discounted sum of £35.00 will be accepted as full payment of the penalty charge notice if received within 14 days of the date of this letter.

If payment of the reduced charge of £35.00 is not received within 14 days of the date of this letter, or if payment of the full Penalty Charge of £70.00 is not received within 28 days of the date of the letter, the Council may issue a "Notice to Owner".

If payment is not received, registered keeper details may be requested from the DVLA and we may send the owner of the vehicle a Notice to Owner that will enable them to make a formal representation to us. We will consider all representations we receive. If we reject the representation the owner will be able to appeal to an independent parking adjudicator, who will consider whether any of the statutory grounds for appeal apply in the case. It is not possible to appeal to a parking adjudicator without going through the process of making a formal representation to us.

The Council has fulfilled its statutory duty to consider your informal challenge. Further correspondence received prior to a Notice to Owner being served will be considered but if in our consideration it does not merit cancelling the penalty charge it may not be replied to.

That doesn't read as though you appealed on the basis that there were two fines in quick succession?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

The following is my appeal;

am the owner of the Thai Orchid Restaurant in Cathedral Yard and when the
restaurant was closed I needed to paint the front of the restaurant. I paint
the front of the restaurant as I rent the ground at the front for AL Fresco
Dining and need to make the place presentable for the people of Exeter and it's
visitors. There was a procedure in place for business owners to gain access to
the Yard when the Cathedral Yard was closed off by the rising bollard however
this is now not in use and has not been in use for several years. No update to
the traffic act or access procedures has been provided to the restaurant since
the bollard was decommissioned for essential access to my business and the
Cathedral Yard. In any case there can be no enforcement of access restrictions
to the yard in place as on the 21 June 2015 when my tickets were issued, the
owner and staff of Al Farids restaurant were permitted to access cathedral yard
repeatedly and without any penalties. I have photographic evidence of these
vehicles accessing cathedral yard albeit on a different day but again without
penalty. Perhaps the rules that the wardens follow only apply to Thai Orchid.
In any Case there is no procedure in place or updated traffic order provided to
Thai Orchid since the controls were changed. The warden was rude and answered
my comments dismissively with the word "Whatever". I asked him to let
me unload my tools into the restaurant and he said “there is no time” and
immediately placed this PCN on my car. I am trying to improve Exeter and make
the place better for everyone to look at despite the homeless, drug dealing,
drug abuse including injection of what I can only assume is heroine, rubbish
all over the green and yet your warden would not afford me enough time to put
my tools into the restaurant. As you can see the observation time on the ticket
is one minute, from 15:47 to 15:48 and given that it took him the best part of
a minute to insult me, look at me with extreme venom and write the ticket,
there was no grace period given at all. This is unfair, uncivilized and
inhumane at best. Why make it difficult for me to improve this forgotten corner
of the city. Given that the ticket was slapped on my windscreen already,
I saw no issue with moving my tools from the vehicle and placing them into the
restaurant. The warden returned to my vehicle at 16:01 just 13 minutes later
and slapped a second ticket on my windscreen taking an unhealthy amount of
pleasure in doing so. This is not the treatment I would expect as a
citizen of the United Kingdom and a business owner in the city of Exeter and I
can only hope that God forgives you. I have been targeted, abused, intimidated,
and treated with no respect whatsoever. I would even suggest that this
treatment is unlawful. The second PCN number for cross reference is YD10844257.
In addition the behaviour of your warden was observed by nearby tourists and
they told me it was an absolute disgrace. What an impression we set for our
visitors to this beautiful city/police state

Ok. I suppose that does contain some irrelevancies but you do raise the issue of the two tickets.
I have to say that I have never known a council issue two tickets for exactly the same offence to a vehicle that hasn't moved. On the fact of it, that does seem to amount to duplication.
Normally one offence of unlawful parking within a 24 hour period is the subject of ticketing.
One might understand their actions if a different offence were committed but that isn't what happened and it is just plain wrong to say that you were unlawfully parked there at X time and also at Y time. It was one continuous act.
I cannot immediately see how the Adjudicator could find anything else although I suppose I haven't had full vision of this case.
Your other two points above and not grounds of appeal though I'm afraid.
Can I clarify anything for you?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

So do I have grounds to appeal further based on the duplication or should I pay both tickets and move on?

It depends how much risk you are willing to take.
You don't have grounds to appeal the first.
My own personal decision would be to appeal the second but you have to way up whether you are willing to take the risk of having to pay an increased sum if you go to tribunal and lose.
Jo C. and other Law Specialists are ready to help you