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I've applied through the small claims court to get a refund for the parts, when i did this , only then did they threaten to make a counter claim. There has never been any contract agreed or signed in writing, The parts I bought off then are available to anyone to buy through their website, as plug and play.
Ok, here's one of their replies:
When looking at the situation as a whole, we are disappointed that the relationship has broken down this way, particularly following the two year ongoing partnership that we have had and the varying promises that have been made by yourself, including the great deal of work that was discussed and the advertising prospects relating to magazines and other varying publications. As I am sure you can imagine, based on these facts we provided you with considerable discounts on both our products, services and advice over the years. Note that the actual value of the parts concerned on invoice 19 is £938.00 which we discounted to £625 based on the above reason. If we consider the true value of the project, the figures to our loss are as follows;
£868 for the ECU and cam kit (if we refund you)
£1500 for the engine rebuilt (normally £2500 – so we have already discounted you £1000)
£700 in engine building components
£1000 in labour for the engine refit
£500 for a new engine loom
£450 Dyno time for the engine tuning
£225 for the torque tube rebuild
A total of £5243.00 plus VAT.
In addition to the above, in our last discussion, which was just a week prior to your cancellation email you had promised to visit us with the engine components so that we could begin the engine rebuild. As a result of this we made considerable room in our calendar to accommodate the work you had promised which also caused us to delay starting other customer projects, something which I can sure you can understand, has also cost us money and time. You will also recall that following your cancellation email we had a discussion at great length regarding your reasons for cancellation which we neither comprehend, nor accept is any fault of ours. In our opinion, based on verbal conversation and email discussions, we did have a form of contractual agreement in place which was supported by both our commitment to your project, provision of services and your purchasing of our products. You have now decided that you no longer wish to stand by your end of the bargain which as you can see from the above, has considerable financial implications for us.
We are also in a difficult position that the parts we sold you are now over two years old. It is almost impossible from a business perspective to justify refunding the products two years later without ourselves making a considerable loss, particularly where this is through no fault of our own or the products. I am sure you would agree, that in any normal transaction, returning parts two years later would not be accepted, in many cases the warranties and guarantees provided with the product would have also expired by this point.
However, in order to help us both recover from this situation as amicably as possible we are happy to present two options;
We retain the parts you have returned, and we will absorb the losses we have made as a result of your cancellation
We re-invoice you for the full value of the parts and we will return them to yourself
In reality the threat of court action is not an attractive position for either you or us, particularly as there have already been costly losses on both sides already. Further, your points from your email of the 31st July 2015 regarding the below have also been noted and recorded for future reference;
Breach of Contract, Please explain ?
I've never agreed or seen a contract or any paperwork / quote with them, see below another email from the single director:
So your saying I've paid for goods, not got them, they can refuse a full refund or a part refund, and refuse sending my goods back.
Because I've said on the phone and an email I'll get them to build my engine?
To of then received an email from them thy they DO NOT want to build my engine means nothing?
Building an engine is one thing, right ?>
Buying items then not wanting them is another,?
And if a retailer says no to a refund, or part refund how can then then declare they are keeping my goods anyway ?
We discusses it verbally on the phone, and I also sent them an email confirming our conversation for £1500.
But there counter claim list is exaggerated and £7500!
I would not of agree the fabricated costs they have made up in this claim.
There has never been any quotes, paperwork, dates, or contract or terms discussed phone or email and surely the email from them saying they do not want to do it now.............says and means something?
Ok, that sounds a bit more promising then, I've already requested they send back all the goods, but they replied :
What will the SCC do now?
So they will list a hearing, where will this be?
local to me or them or in Northampton ?
Do you think this company will go to these lengths........?
It's a one man band company a son who's father is involved and all my discussions were with this father who I'm not sure is actually an employee of the company? My application has gone to the only owner / director who is the son, he has and is not discussing this matter with me, but instead his mum and dad are!
The defendant is an Individual and also the only director of the company from where I bought the goods from.
I think there's a point here, where I've bought goods from the above person called Tom, and then discussed with his father fitting the parts, then discussed with his father not fitting the parts and I'm really not sure his father is an employee of the company?
Isn;t this quite important ?
Also his mother is currently the only one emailing me, because she announced herself a week ago and delcared I should direct all my correspondance to her, she also to my knowledge does not work as a n employee for the company, where I purchased parts...
The father owns another company which sells car parts, so not only does the original (Son) company NOT declare they are engine builders but also the father and fathers company does not declare on his website that he builds engines.
And all the discussions in regard to engine building have been with the father.
Shouldn't I be dealing with only the director of the company where I bought the goods from, and not his mum and dad?
Surely my so called verbal agreement to this son's father has nothing to do and no official dom with the sons company ?
The Mum and Dad can be acting ?
Do I need to clarify this with them?
I'm not sueing anyone, just looking for a refund for some goods from a company.
The application has already been made to / in the name of the son / director only
They are not willing to refund me, or give me the products back, and then counter claiming losses..........
Surely i should only be corresponding with said person and not his mum and dad?
And the really important bit is all the discussions with parts been fitted to my engine (With father) he probably isn;t an employee of the company, so he has nothing to do with the company and surely anything I've discussed and verbally agreed with him must be null and void in regard to the company the son owns. ?
This was the first email from the mother:
Do I need to clarify with the
the Mum and Dad that they are acting for the director of the application that I've applied for?
If these 2 people are just relatives, they have nothing to do with the company.
I'm not sueing anyone, just looking for a refund from a retailer.
They are not willing to refund me, or give me the products back, can they do this? and then counter claiming losses..........?
What do you mean, They must refund me ?
ok, so the small claims application will reveal and recify this situation then, I'm assuming a trial will see a judge request a refund is given ?
On a counter claim, surely counter can only be on the same item / issue ?
In other words, if they want to sue me for losses as I've declared I do not want them to build my engine, this should be a separate application from them to me?
When I wrote to them and cancelled, I had no reply for weeks, I had no response that declared it was a massive loss for them, and that I was in breach etc.... In fact I never heard anything at all, so it couldn;t of been a big issue for them could it ?
So why was it only when I had to apply to the SCC for products bought that they then decided to firstly threaten me with some counter claim for losses ?
In other words part 2, they never would of done this if I had not of requested a refund of the items.
Won't a Judge dismiss a counter claim on some alledged work that is nothing to do directly with some products / parts purchased ?
It's getting clearer, do I have a reasonable case then ?
My fear is that the Judge sees that the goods need returning but that I was bound to have them do some work and I cancelled, and males me pay up thousands of pounds !
But I've never seen signed or agreed any contract, placed a deposit or seen any breakdown on costs or estimate / quote etc...
As above, they have no evidence to show the alledged losses were an issue, they did not ever say or send me anything to illustrate this, and hence the counter claim is just sour grapes..
That doesn't make sense, an oral contract?
He said, she said.....how can anything ever be proven if no conversation was recorded ?
I asked previously : On a counter claim, surely counter can only be on the same item / issue ?And you said "Yes related to the same claim"
Ok, well the parts I bought were originally for me to fit, they are a camshaft and an electrical ECU box, which is nothing like building an engine with a crank and pistons etc.... that was discussed a year later after buying the products....
What if I've got written evidence from them that they do not want to build the engine and they do not want to fit any parts or have anything to do with it.............Because that's what they did, that's what I have as the text I quoted on here ?