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ukfamilysolicitor, Solicitor
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 1439
Experience:  Qualified Solicitor Currently specialising in Family. Also experienced in Corporate, Employment, Civil Litigation, Debt Recovery
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Earlier this year I made a claim against a local window joiner, after unsuccessfully tryin

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Earlier this year I made a claim against a local window joiner, after unsuccessfully trying to reach an agreement regarding partial refund etc. He made a counter claim, and on 7th August there was a hearing at which we did reach an agreement. This culminated in a Court Order. The Defendant had to repay me some money within a month, and thereafter so much on a monthly basis. I had to return the last three windows to him. I did this, but it wasn't easy and the Defendant obstructed their return in every way which resulted me hiring a courier, packaging up the windows and opening lights with bubble wrap, tape and staples down the edges of the frames as the tape kept coming off. The Defendant has now requested a hearing (he has a big firm of solicitors behind him and I am a litigant in person, and a senior widow) to apply for an Order for the Stay on the proceedings to be lifted, as he is claiming I returned his windows in a damaged condition.
At the original 'settlement' hearing
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
At the original settlement hearing on the 7th August, (which was originally going to be the trial date) an Agreement was reached whereby the Defendant had to repay me a lump sum and a monthly payment for 15 months, and he asked for the remaining 3 windows to be returned. I had them removed and although the Defendant tried everything to stop me from returning them by the due date (because he wanted me to be in breach of the contract), I hired a courier who returned them the day before the due date. The windows and opening lights were wrapped in shrink wrap, bubble wrap, cardboard around the corners and then everything was stapled down the edges (that butt to the brickwork). He has now, via his solicitors, applying for the stay on the proceedings to be lifted, the matter be listed for a directions hearing on the first available date after 19th October, and that the Claimant (me) pay the Defendant's costs of the application. He is claiming that I have returned his windows in a damaged condition.At the hearing on the 7th August, after we'd reached an agreement, the Judge did say that he did not want to see the Defendant or his windows back in court. I have not damaged his windows, and although there will be very tiny pin pricks down the edges of the frames, i.e. 0.1mm this will not compromise the frames (which frankly are already compromised because of his bad workmanship).I received no directions from the Court with the copy Application and the hearing is set for the 10th December. What should I do?
Welcome to Just Answer
I am a Solicitor and will assist you.
Please may I ask:-
- has the other party detailed what damage has been caused?
- what are the Windows worth? How much was he ordered to pay you?
- did you take pictures of the Windows?
- do you have the proof he tried to frustrate delivery?
Kind Regards
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Original quotation for 8 windows was £5400 plus VAT
I wouldn't allow him to install remaining five windows and these were returned in January as he claimed that until remaining £1400 paid they were still his windows.
The original value of the three windows that remained installed is £645.03 each (plus VAT)
The Agreement was that he paid me £2750 (£2000 lump sum which he has paid, and £50 a month thereafter for 15 months beginning 4th October. I've received two cheques from him but the first hasnt yet cleared. He is refusing to pay by standing order, which would make life a lot simpler!) Neither will he give me his cheque number for the one paid on the 4th October.
I do have pictures of the windows as they were being removed, and just before they were wrapped, and after they were all wrapped.
I also have proof that he did try to frustrate delivery.
I have copied below his statement:"On 14th September, in purported compliance with the Order the Claimant delivered the 3 windows to the Defendant. Upon inspection the Defendant noted that the packaging used by the Claimant was stapled directly into the wooden frames. Images are attached. The settlement agreement states that the widows were to be returned in an undamaged condition. It is the Defendant's case that the insertion of numerous metal staples into the oak frames will compromise the frames upon removal and the frames are therefore damaged.
Furthermore, the Defendant advises that he had identified a purchaser for the windows in the exectation that they would be returned undamaged. The purchaser was willing to pay the Defendant £840. However, due to the Claimant inserting the staples into the window frames, the Defendant avers that the windows are no longer in a saleable condition.Pursuant to CPR 3.1(2), on behalf of the Defendant, we request the Court lift the stay and list this matter for further directions."I have since replaced his windows with those from Magnet (Jeldwen) windows. I used some of the packaging from these to pack up Mr. Ogden's windows and Jeldwen also send their windows out stapled down the edges. There is certainly no compromise to the structure of the windows. The staples are 11mm long, the legs are .5mm long and the body is .1mm wide!He included a picture of a hole he had made after removing a staple It is obvious that he didn't use the correct implement with which to remove the staples.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
The staples are the same size as the average ones used to secure papers
Thank you for your response.
My sincer apologies for my delay in responding to you as my computer froze.
It sounds like the other party is doing everything they can to be difficult.
The other party is going to try to argue with the court that you have not complied with the order in respect of the windows being returned undamaged. I am suprised - given that you have already detailed that the windows were fitted to your house that there is bound to be some sort of wear and tear. I can only imagine that the court was aware that the windows were fitted to your house when the court order was made.
The question for the court is really going to be whether or not the integrity has been compromised. If the court agrees then the other party will seek that this is offset against what he owes you. If the court doesnt agree then the position will stay the same as the last court order.
The simplest way to resolve this is going to be for a 3rd party to check the windows and give an independant opinion to the court.
Whilst there have been no directions made that you need to comply with prior to the court hearing it is important that you set out your evidence - in respect of him tying to frustrate compliance with the last order. Although this doent go to the route of the issue in respect of whether or not the windows are compromised - it will help you argue to the court that the other party is just doing everything possible to frustrate matters and the claim that he is making now that the windows are compromised are only a further attempt to make things difficult.
Kind Regards
Please kindly remember to rate positively.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi - not to worry about frozen computer. I had to go on an errand.When the first attempt was made, and the windows immediately rejected by Mr Ogden, I immediately wrote to the Court. Ogden then emailed me a few days later with his version of events, and I've also emailed those to the Court. It was my son who originally took the windows back to him - and made an appointment with Ogden for him to do so. However, he refused the windows on the grounds they weren't fully assembled. It's impossible to lift fully assembled and glazed windows on one's own. Apparently Mr. Ogden became extremely volatile and so my son just drove away.In order for this to be correctly recorded, how is this done? How do I present this to the Judge at the appropriate time? Do I need to complete anything? Everything so far has been sent to the Court Manager by email, so they will have a record of the events so far.
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
PS - I did object at the time regarding the clause about them being returned undamaged, but Ogden wasn't having any of it. The Judge did say to him that he was to expect some damage on their removal, and that he did not want to see Ogden or his windows back in Court. I hadn't allowed Ogden to fix the windows with foam or filler, so this meant the windows were removed cleanly. We did discover more joinery horrors with the windows upon removal, and I've also photographed those. They really aren't in a saleable condition. But that is Ogden's problem not mine, but I do have further proof that the windows should never have been sold to me. I am trying to get photographs from Jeldwen regarding the way they send out their windows, i.e. cardboard, polythene and stapled down the sides. Jo
Thank you for your response.
Although no directions have been made yet - you should still prepare all your documents into a list and file and serve these at least a week before the hearing. You should also get a statement from your son.
Although you do not have permission to do this - if you can convince the court at the next court hearing that the proceedings should not reopened then the matter will end there - so it's worth being prepared.
If the court wants to consider this further - directions will then be made for disclosure and trial.
Kind Regards
I agree with the Judge - he can't expect them to be perfect. I do hope you get the same Judge as it sounds like he has the measure of him.
Kind Regards
ukfamilysolicitor and 2 other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hello Caroline. Thank you for your help.Jo
Your welcome Jo
If your happy - please kindly remember to rate positively.
Please do not hesitate to ask if I can assist you further.
Kind Regards