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Ben Jones
Ben Jones, UK Lawyer
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My husband has been employed as a contractor by Morosn International

Customer Question

My husband has been employed as a contractor by Morosn International for BAE Systems in Riyadh Saudi Arabia. He has 24 years exemplary military service behind him and a totally unblemished career.
On Thursday 25th Feb he was invited to play pool with some professional colleagues & then asked for a drink in the small room attached via sliding doors. The two colleagues that he played pool with sat at a table. 15 mins later they noticed a woman really distressed and throwing things out of her handbag. She was approx 4 feet away. My husband got up and asked what was wrong and she advised him that her purse was missing. He advised her to report it to the Bar Manager and Duty Manager. As he was leaving to face time me as my birthday, he was asked to empty his pockets which he did and count the money he had then made his way back to his bungalow. On Tuesday 15th March he received a call to ask him to attend an interview at 3.30pm re an allegation. He entered a room with an HR Managwr and his Line manager who never ever acknowledged him or spoke to him the entire time. He HR manager didn't make direct eye context with him either. He was told that an allegation had been made that he had taken this woman's money!!! That he has upset a member of the BAE systems family and was refused any opportunity to provide any evidence/statements to prove his innocence. He asked several obvious questions and met with "it's confidential" each time He was told to return to his room and return for a decision at 5pm. He did and was told that an impartial witness statement has then been handed in and therefore his services were no longer required. He was in complete disbelief. He withdrew funds on 19th Feb to cover his wi fi and as he had paid for the Saudi breakfast that morning, took extra out to cover him until the end of the month. He hasn't made a withdrawal since. He was placed under a type of house arrest and flown back to the UK on Friday. I have never ever seen my husband so distressed. No after Afghanistan or Iraq. He has an incredible career history of achievements and had worked tirelessly in Riyad to enable him to be considered for a full time permanent role. He has since been told by Morson that his woman has now said he gave her money!! When he wants to know. How did he manage then to pay for his meals the next day and the rest of the duration? With his own money of course!! He was with two professional ex flight Sgts who are totally supportive of my husbands conduct. The woman's purse was found later that night in the male toilets and my husband didn't even use the toilets. He was out from 8pm to 10.30pm. He was told in Saudi that services no longer required. Morson initially said same and asked for up to date CV and would he be prepared to return to Saudi. My husband said yes and sent CV across. He also wrote when he noticed that his wage slip has arrived and paid until the 18th March and thought that in terms and conditions that he would be entitled to 4 weeks pay. Last night we received an email to say not entitled to any pay as Gross Misconduct!!! For something he didn't do? He has support from Saudi re his colleagues and they know something is dreadfully amiss. His Operations Manaer was cross that HR had refused to accept statements (a really nice Saudi man) and arranged himself for the witness statements to be scanned to HR but found their attitude strange. My husband saw someone high up BAE ladder who wasn't interested at all and was looking at his watch, advising him simply appeal through Morson. This isn't isolated incident but never been dealt with like this. Morson asked would my husband like to appeal!!! Yes of course!!! They are in communication with BAE KSA here my husbands British superintendent has been in touch and said BAE have sunk to a new level. This lady must have connections very high up. It's cost us everything. We are on emotional tatters. I am an older mum at 53 of an 8 yr old and have had to cancel her swimming lessons. Her dyslexia lessons everything.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
Hello can you please clarify the specific queries you have in relation to this?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
we we're hoping for advice about rights and the way forward as clearly there is something that's not right. We are in an vunerable position as a result of unfair actions and although it is a known fact that BAE are paranoid about upsetting or disagreeing with the Saudis. However surely it is not lawful to simply tell someone's gross misconduct from an unsubstantiated claim. I am looking to you for the advice???
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
Hello, sorry I have been in and out of court today. Can you please provide details of his employment arrangement - was he an employee or self employed? How long has he worked there for? Was he employed by Morson and just contracted out to the client who made the decision to dismiss?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
He was contracted by Morson International to work in Riyadh for BAE KSA. He left to work there Feb 5 2016. He has had messages of support and even next in line - they know it's a set up. It happens quite regularly. The Operations Manager was disgusted with the whole scenario and took it upon himself to arrange for witness statements to be scanned across to HR BAE out in Saudi. He has been told by an ex employee that as a sub contractor that this is the norm I would like to forward that message but unable to My husband wasn't allowed to know a thing. Not allowed to see statements/allegations names - no warning only a phone call a few hours previously received a call. He can prove and has provided evidence of his withdrawal (witnessed) and when he arrived back into the UK on Friday, learned from Morsons that he was supposed to have given this woman money. He has witnesses to prove his conduct that evening. Max 2.4hrs out. If he stole her purse (miraculously was found later that night) and her money - then actually offered her money? So the money he counted out was his - can prove that - what would he have used the following day for lunch and evening meals the rest if the duration? He can also prove he didn't make any further withdrawal? Had a few riyals left on his return home to the UK and has a screen shot of that transaction.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
He was placed under a kind of house arrest. Wasn't allowed to frequent any establishment or restaurants. Only allowed to have meals delivered. Totally disgusting but it happens on Saudi. More difficult to treat a permanent member of staff this way apparently. He has just been head hunted for permanent role where my daughter and I could join him. This appears to be an unsubstantiated accusation however as every question my husband asked he was told it was confidential etc etc. He came home a broken man. His colleagues are mortified and now apprehensive about going out for fear of being in the same position. The two colleagues who were with him that evening are both Morson Contractors and ex flight Sergeants, professional mature men and their statements can prove his innocence. However we have been told that the decision has been made It was made when my husband first entered the interview room Neither the HR Manager - Young and very condescending towards my husband didn't look him direct in the eye and his line manager who has no respect from anyone out in Riyadh as does very little and is not in the least interested in the men, permanent or otherwise would not have been my husbands choice of support. The Operations Manager and those who knew my husband did not want to lose him. It was said he could produce work in one day that would take others 2 weeks. He has been worn orb exceptionally hard to gain a platform from which to move forward and establish himself for permanency. Thus far this false accusation has cost us £3,500 and a £55,000 a year job.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
BAE HR made the decision sorry. They arranged for him to attend a meeting at 3.30. It ended at 4pm. He was advised to return at 5pm. An impartial witness decided to hand in a statement and was told therefore services no longer rehired and now we learn gross miss conduct. The only thing my husband did that night was to ask that woman what was wrong. She said her purse was missing. So please tell me how on earth this is acceptable. It's ridiculous. He was requested by 22 SAS for a 3 year attachment and you have to be in the top 5% Armywide for that privilege, awarded one of 6 gold coins available for 6,500 staff for his conduct both in 2009 and 2011. He character is unblemished. I can't express the stress alone this has caused
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi Debbie, nothing new has come out as far as I can find. The only thing new is that the social led Lady was South American and not flip, apart from that I am sorry to say there is nothing new.
The guys statements were handed in but as far as Faisal is aware nothing will change as the decision has been made, again another sad day as far as this crap company is concerned.
Of course I will keep on trying to find anything new out and if I do you will be the first to hear!!!
On that note I hope you can all have a good time eventually and as I have said before just try and enjoy being together as a family.
Take care and I hope Jim can put this shoddy business behind him eventually
Jim 😄 From his superintendentsorry for not answering I am face timing back home with my Mother trying to stop the tears, all she does is cry and get depressed. Starting to get me down now 😄. You know what I think of BAe, didn't think I could think any less of them but after what happened to you Jim they have reached a new low as far as I am concerned. Hope you and the family are looking after each other!! Same man.Mate, I think I kept a copy. However, I want be able to get to you until I return from leave. I am on my way to Glasgow tonight. I not sure why the Saudis' are involved since it happened on the compound and no Saudi was involved. That I find very strange. Regards Skip (one of the witnesses who were with my husband that evening. He was sat with my husband and saw this woman in distress. James asked her what was wrong and when she said her purse was stolen and he offered her advice he immediately sat back down and told them what was wrong. This was in a statement that BAE HR would not accept along with the other statementstatement
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I have an email I would like you to see but no idea how to get it to here. Have broken down screenshots and also whatssap but won't allow me to copy across. How strange.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
It's from an ex employee out in Saudi now living in Bahrain and knows how it works there. It makes for interesting but sad reading as to how and what really goes on out there and also what his thoughts are I shall keep trying to get it to you unless I could forward one single email to you. Not slept since last Tuesday and have an 8 year old. I didn't feel well enough to travel but no grounds to cancel and recover expenses. In Bangkok and not left Hotel. Much too distressed. If I could afford flights back and break my daughters heart I would. This is wrong at every level. My husband is 46 and I am 53
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
Thank you, ***** ***** a lot of information to go through here so please leave it with me. I am in tribunal tomorrow so may not be able to reply until later on in the day but I will provide my full response tomorrow. No need to send the email as I have sufficient details here, thanks
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
Thanks for your patience. The main issue your husband will face is the fact that he is a contractor and not an employee. As such his employment rights will be somewhat limited. Working as a contractor means he has no protection against unfair dismissal, which in effect means that his services can be terminated at any time and for more or less any reason. The client he works for can decide they no longer want him and advise his employer who will have to remove him from that assignment. This is regardless of whether he has done anything wrong or not – no justification is required by law. Only employees with more than 2 years service are protected against unfair dismissal and the employer has to show a fair reason for dismissal and follow a fair procedure. So as someone who worked there as a contractor and for such a short period of time, he is in a very vulnerable position. Whilst morally wrong, legally they are able to remove him even if he was completely innocent – he could have even stayed at home that night and still been accused of theft in the bar and been dismissed as a result. So the dismissal cannot be challenged unfortunately. He can appeal if given the chance but if that is rejected that is the end of the road legally.He could challenge the gross misconduct aspect of it and try to argue that the evidence is mot strong enough but that will not get his job back, it can however get his notice pay. The issue is that it depends on what evidence the employer actually had. If they had statements which made him look guilty and the employer had genuine belief he was guilty then that would be sufficient. They do not need to prove with certainty that he was guilty, this is not a criminal court, the threshold is much lower in employment situations.So apart from the appeal he cannot take this any further as he does not get legal protection against what has happened. The best he can expect is to challenge the non-payment of the notice period but if they refuse to overturn this then the only option is to go to court, which immediately complicates matters, but it is an option if required.I'm sorry if this is not necessarily the answer you were hoping for, however I do have a duty to be honest and explain the law as it actually stands. This does mean delivering bad news from time to time. I hope you understand and would be happy to provide any further clarification if needed. If you are still satisfied with the level of service you have received I would be grateful if you could please take a second to leave a positive rating by selecting 3, 4 or 5 starts at the top of the page. Thank you
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
Hello, I see you have read my response to your query. If this has answered your question please take a second to leave a positive rating by selecting 3, 4 or 5 stars from the top of the page. I spend a lot of time and effort answering individual queries and I am not credited for my time until you leave your rating. If you still need further help please get back to me on here and I will assist as best as I can. Many thanks.
Expert:  Ben Jones replied 1 year ago.
Hello, do you need any further assistance or are you happy with the above response? Look forward to hearing from you.