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Jamie-Law
Jamie-Law, Solicitor
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Experience:  Solicitor
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Flat grp roof. Faulty from the start under the CRAct 2015

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flat grp roof. Faulty from the start under the CRAct 2015 it, the company, had right to repair/replace. It has been replaced but still leaking and worse than before. Not the one we were shown at point of sale, immense damage caused internally, leaks and ceilings coming down during this second installation. Also, latest sub contracted fitters said this national company hadn't installed any insulation in the first place, despite asking for it at original point of sale. Also so bad, chip board and our original insulation warped and crumbling. What is the next step to reject and ask for full refund. Do we have to do it within the 30 days? Or do we have to ask the company to mend this second faulty grp flat roof. Tank you so much.
Assistant: You can process your own refund by going to the Order History page and clicking on the "How do I get a refund" link below the amount paid for your question.
Customer: Do we have to ask if the company has finished with this second installation before action.
Assistant: Where are you located? It matters because laws vary by location.
Customer: England not scotland
Assistant: Has anything been filed or reported?
Customer: We went to small claims originally but settled out of court for damages and fees and agreed that they could do it a second time. Its worse than ever.
Assistant: Anything else you want the solicitor to know before I connect you?
Customer: Can we claim for additional damages during second installation. internally and externally.

Hello my name is ***** ***** I will help you with this.

What was the first Court case for - a refund?

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
We, naively, hoped to sue it for breach of contract, but didn't realise that it all came down to CRACT. It had a right to put the roof right even though it had failed to meet contractual obligations. Also we wanted about 7k back but because we were on finance would would have had to pay barclays 17k. So an offer of 2k we accepted which covered our court costs and damage internally at first fix. Now second fix proved it used cheap products, didn't install any insulation with extensive leaks and warping. Now new roof, done by sub contractor, looks nothing like what we signed up for, massive gaps between fascias and new roof edge, water entering via gaps. Sub contractors not asked to do this. Gutters wrecked and water pouring down side of walls.

So what happened in the first hearing? Was it dismissed?

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Jamie we accepted monies and didn't finish it. We wrote to court telling judge we'd accepted an earlier offer. And we're giving company right to replace.

You accepted money for what?

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Court costs to date and repair costs during first fix.
Customer: replied 4 months ago.
The company accepted it was a poor roof and exercised the right to replace/repair. We want to reject this second roof, leaking still, rain entering from roof via shortened fascias, poor guttering and it doesn't look anything like the model shown at point of sale. Can we reasonably expect a price reduction or refund if we go ahead within 30 days from yesterday.

Ok - so you want to sue them for the second repair?

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Second roof, a replacement for the faulty one. Its still faulty, not fit for purpose and doesn't look anything like the one we signed up for. When we tried to sue them for fundamental breach of contract we didn't realise they had to be given a right to replace or repair under the new CRACT. Thats why it crumbled and we had to accept its offer. We knew they'd done it cheaply but not that they knowingly tried to defraud and not install insulation that was specifically requested. We are the 25th roof done by this company that has been repaired or replaced by one sub contractor - they have another 80 on their books to do. The sub contractors said that most of the clients were elderly and wouldnt be aware of their rights. We've had enough and once again it seems to be the consumer that always has to make the compromises. The judge at the initial hearing said that it wasn't reasonable that we had to wait for as long as we did for a repair....this time however we have badgered and badgered with more and more leaks and they acted. This company now no longer does GPR flat rooves and said it is now concentrating on its other products - hence sub contractors.
Customer: replied 4 months ago.
The company has not yet called us to ask for any satisfaction note after this second installation. They should call next week but haven't rung us since appointing the sub contractor. The sub contractors are billing the company twice for our roof because they had to rip off the faulty one which had been laid on top of the original AND the original which hadn't been removed as contractually promised! Are we to get in writing that they have finished the job and its contractual obligation before we reject on the grounds highlighted earlier? We just need to know our rights under the CRACT2015 and what to say.

Ok. So what happened at the first hearing?

Are you now seeking to bring a claim for the same thing?

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Are you up to date with Consumer Rights Act 2015? First hearing ended with us accepting monies for internal damage and court costs AND us accepting that the company had a right to repair or replace. There was no ruling from the court, the hearing was not completed. NOW the company has replaced the roof BUT it still leaks because of poor guttering and fascia fitting. At what stage do we have a right to reject and ask for our monies back (a full refund) or a price reduction. What do we need from the company to say they have finished this second roof? We dont want to go to court again but we need to know our rights under CRACT 2015.

Yes, as a Solciitor I am up to date with the Consumer Rights Act 2015, thank you so much for checking.

What is the cost to get the second roof finished with someone else?

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
I didnt mean to appear condescending, sorry for that, many of the legal professionals we have approached over the last 18 months haven't got their heads around the intricacies of the new act. This roof cost 17K, we have obtained three quotes from others companies ranging from 14K to 7K. Its not about the cost of this roof its about our rights now. The right of rejection/refund because it still leaks, not what we were shown at point of sale and not completed to a standard of 17K. This is the companies second attempt at doing the roof and it has failed.
Customer: replied 4 months ago.
We have this morning decided to ask the company to send a surveyor to sign it off and then what can we do. What are the specidic points of the ACT we can use, what do we say, and regarding the 30 day rule does that start after the surveyor has been or when the work was completed as of Friday.
Customer: replied 4 months ago.
CRACT Part 1 CHP 2; section 9 goods to be of a satisfactory quality. section 10 goods to be of a particular purpose; section 11 goods to be as described; section 13 goods to match a sample shown; 14 goods to match a model seen or examined;
the remedies - price reduction or final right to reject - can we apply if they get it wrong a second time?
Its ok we now know that we need the trader to notify us that remedial action has been taken, we've worked that one out. Section 24 part 5 - how do we decide if it doesn't conform? Is (a) is enough?

Sorry for the overnight delay, I wasnt too well.

You need to write and set out your losses and request the work done or refund of completion cost elsewhere within 14 days or say will go to Court within 14 days. You should make sure you send this signed delivery and keep a copy.

If they do not then you can issue proceedings in the County Court. You can either do this online at: www.moneyclaim.gov.uk or by completing form N1 http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmctsformfinder/n1-eng.pdf and take it to your local County Court.

The Court will then issue a claim which a copy will be sent to the Defendant who will have a limited time to defend it, if not you can enter Judgment and enforce.

If the claim is for £10,000 or less it will be a small claim so you will not need legal representation. Over this value you would need representation for trial.

Can I clarify anything for you about this today please?

If not, I would appreciate a 5 star rating for my answer. If you need anything further I am available for a follow up at no extra cost.

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
This is the second roof. The first roof Everest admitted was faulty and had the right to carry out temporary repairs until they replaced it in full. We gave them that right and they gave us monies for court fees and internal repairs to the damage caused. There was no court ruling we settled out of court. They have sub contracted a roofing firm to replace the roof. It has and it still leaks again causing damage internally. At what point to we have the right to reject and ask for a refund in full. When can we reject and ask for a full refund? We know about the 14 days, the 30 days, small claims BUT what we want to know is do we now have to let Everest keep carrying out repairs. When can we implement the right to reject and how do we do that?

No.

You can reject it and you do this now in writing.

Does that clarify?

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
I understand that Everest, not the sub contractors need to inform us that its finished the job. Is that right or is it enough that as the sub contractors have packed up and left the site and gone back to North Wales the job is finished by implication? We've only had a verbal confirmation via the sub contractors that the job is finished.
As its not practical to return the goods can we claim a full refund as the roof is not fit for purpose or can we only claim for the cost of repairs to make it fit for purpose?
A main selling point of a GRP roof is that it is done in one continuous sheet and repairs will result in joints and and compromises its longevity.
What do we put in writing - what words do we use please?
Thank you.

Yes, your contract is with Everest.

You say that they are in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 because:

1) they have failed to act with all reasonable skill and care

2) goods not as described

3) of suitable quality

4) fit for purpose

As such you reject in full

Does that clarify?

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Do they need to officially inform us that they have "finished" the job before we say this? Either verbally or in writing. We think they do but perhaps with your knowledge/and interpretation of the CRACT you see otherwise.

No, they do not. I would do it in writing, verbally can be denied

Does that clarify?

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Thank you. We still feel confused - its a mine field!

Well, you write and set out you want to cancel, reject any further works being done.

That is all you do.

Can I clarify anything for you about this today, please?

If not, I would appreciate a 5-star rating for my answer. If you need anything further I am available for a follow up at no extra cost.

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
One more question please.
If we allow further repairs today to stop water entering our house will we lose the right of final rejection?
The company is returning today and I suspect they will do a makeshift/bodge it job, perhaps by injecting expanding foam into any gap they find - we have experienced this the first time around. Although it may temporarily stop the rain entering it does not represent a proper permanent job. I don't want to risk losing my right to reject by allowing a second attempt at repair.
Yet we must stop the leaks....Where do we stand on this? Do I notify Everest that I claim my right to final rejection before they turn up this afternoon?

No. You do not lose the right.

You must stop the leaks, so you give them this chance to repair, but notify them in advance of your final rejection.

Does that clarify?

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Can you please read our draft letter below - so that you could give it approval? Heres the draft ... (do we have to say without prejudice?)Dear Mr Flanagan (Everest legal services manager)
Further to my emails of Saturday 9th December and Sunday 10th December 2017 the following is clear.
The repair/replacement of the flat roof was completed on Thursday 7th December 2017 and your workers left having confirmed with their manager that the job had been finished. We had a call from Sue at Sefton Specialised Roofing confirming that the job was finished and to say that the skip would be collected week commencing 11th December.
It is obvious, with the deluge of rain entering our house and causing further damage in four rooms, that the repair has failed.
Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 Chapter 2 Section 24 we now have a final right to reject due to the product still not conforming to the contract after the repair.
The goods are not of satisfactory quality, the goods are not fit for purpose, the goods don't match the sample or model seen and examined at point of sale and the colour is not as ordered.
The workers failed to act with reasonable skill and care, one example being that a ceiling has been cracked and is now sagging. Another is their admitted failure to protect the surroundings resulting in white resin splatters along the full length of a red painted wall with railings.
I write to inform you that I am exercising my right to final rejection and I claim a full refund for our contracted price and I shall be claiming damages for internal and external damage.
Yours sincerely

Yes that is fine and no, you do not put without prejudice

Does that clarify?

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
that does clarify. Thank you for your swift responses we'll send it now.

All the best. If I could ask you to rate my answer before you go today, by clicking on the 5 stars or happy face at the top of the screen, otherwise the site does not pay me for the time spent with you today. It is also an important part of the online process. If you need anything further I am available for a follow up at no extra cost. Thank you in advance and good luck!

Jamie-Law and other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 months ago.
We sent the letter, Everest looking into it as a matter of urgency... i bet they are! Sub contractor said today "its the worst roof I've ever seen". Still leaking now we have to find someone to repair in the interim and hope everest pays contract price, legal fees and damages. Thank you so very much ... just for your information we paid Everest £16,700 and sub contractor, who did the job, would have charged us £3,600 for the same job!!!

All the best.