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Ben Jones
Ben Jones, UK Lawyer
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 61825
Experience:  Qualified Solicitor
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I am not sure if i got to right place :) i am being

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Hello, I am not sure if i got to right place :)
JA: Where are you? It matters because laws vary by location.
Customer: i am being suspended for allegation of posessing drugs,(havent done it) but my employer doesnt want to hear that many people at work is using drugs.
JA: Have you discussed the suspension with a manager or HR? Or with a lawyer?
Customer: worthing, west sussex
JA: What is your employment status? Are you an employee, freelancer, consultant or contractor? Do you belong to a union?
Customer: employee no i do not thinking of joining
JA: Anything else you want the Lawyer to know before I connect you?
Customer: yes. There was no drug test, as company has no policy for that. Police didnt pursue the case, didnt check what it was

Hello, I’m Ben, a UK lawyer and will be dealing with your case today. I may also need to ask some questions to determine the legal position.

What do you specifically want to know about this, please?

Customer: replied 17 days ago.
Can i be dismissed if only allegation has been made under cctv footage(not very clear) that i had drugs, where, i didnt bring them to work

How long have you worked there for?

Customer: replied 17 days ago.
6 years now. never had any problem, never had any allegations for anything. Always good worker, doinf what i am told

Where did the allegations come from, what made them think that?

Customer: replied 17 days ago.
manager came to work on saturday(overtime hours) found it on the floor. Said somoone should quikly pick it up. which i did. camera footage shows, it appeared on the floor after my coming out from toilet. My manager said, he has done some test, and it is 50/50 it could stick to my shoe, i could have moved it by shoe, etc.
Problem is, they claim it was drugs, but they didnt check it... police didnt want to puruse the case, and didnt do the test. I have heard that some cell leader in my work place, has arranged £700 worth cocaine for amanager, but they do not want to heat it as my defence
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
they only stick to fact, they can see it APPEARS after my coming out from toilet. no evidence, i dropped it...
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
camera footage is not very clear... in first they fought i hold my nose on the way toilet, when later on decided i was drinking something from a can...

Thank you. This is what the law says on these situations and what is expected of the employer.

 

Alleged misconduct is a common reason for taking disciplinary action against an employee. It could be either due to a single serious act of misconduct or a series of less serious acts over a period of time.

 

In order to justify that disciplinary action on grounds of misconduct was fair, the law requires that the employer:

{C}· Conducts a reasonable investigation

{C}· Follows a fair disciplinary procedure; and

{C}· Shows they had reasonable grounds to believe the employee was guilty

 

In addition, the employer is expected to follow the ACAS Code of Practice on Disciplinary and Grievance procedures, which can be incorporated into their own disciplinary policy. Altogether, it means that a fair disciplinary procedure should be conducted as follows:

 

1. Investigation – the employer must conduct a reasonable investigation first. This could include interviewing the employee or other witnesses who may have relevant information. What is reasonable depends entirely on the circumstances and the nature and seriousness of the allegations. The more serious or complex these are, the more detailed the investigation needs to be.

 

2. Disciplinary hearing - if the investigation provides sufficient evidence of misconduct, the employee can be invited to attend a formal disciplinary hearing. They must be given prior notice of the hearing, including details of the allegations and any evidence to be used against them. They have the legal right to be accompanied at the hearing by a trade union representative or a colleague.

 

3. Decision - following the disciplinary hearing and once the employer has had a chance to consider the employee’s response, they can make a decision on the outcome. If the employer holds a genuine belief that the employee was guilty, then they can go ahead and formally sanction them.

 

4. Penalty – this has to be a sanction, which a reasonable employer would have taken in the circumstances. When deciding on the appropriate penalty, the employer should consider the nature and seriousness of the offence and the employee's length of service and disciplinary record. Unless the offence was one of gross misconduct, ACAS recommends that the employee is issued with a written warning for a first offence.

 

In summary, the requirements of proof are not as stringent as in criminal law and an employer is not expected to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the alleged misconduct had definitely occurred. Disciplinary action will be fair if the employer can show that it had met the above criteria, namely conducting a reasonable investigation, following a fair procedure and holding a genuine belief that the employee was guilty. Finally, it must show that the penalty was one that a reasonable employer would have taken in the circumstances.

 

If there is evidence that the employer has not followed a fair procedure as outlined above, a grievance can be submitted to the employer to formally complain about these issues. If a decision has already been taken an appeal can be submitted to the employer immediately after the disciplinary outcome. If the disciplinary results in dismissal then a claim for unfair dismissal can be made in the employment tribunal. There are two requirements to claim: the employee must have at least 2 years' continuous service with the employer and the claim must be made within 3 months of the date of termination.

 

Does this answer your query?

Customer: replied 17 days ago.
what about if i got allegationof bringing drugs to work, with no evidence it was a drug ??? can this be justified ??
another thi8ng is, i have broken my back workinf there, while they couldnt provide good equipment to shopfloor ??
i have been to gp, and diagnosed with stres. I have quite big history of treatment for my back ??
i have asked for payrise or promotion, and later on these allegation came along ??
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
what about if all other eployess say it could have been me to posess the drugs ?? does this counts ?
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
it couldnt have been me i meant
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
the only evidence they have, is white dot, appearing on the camera footage, cant claim what it was exactly, cant claim it was drugs, and yet, they fire me for bringing the drugs to workplace ??

Remember from what I said above they do not need concrete proof, this is not a criminal case. The employer can take into account the opinion f others but if it is just an opinion and there were not direct witnesses, it won’t count for much. I do admit that just a white dot on the CCTV is not really great as evidence on which to base a dismissal, but taken in conjunction with other evidence, including how you answer their investigation queries or having no other plausible explanation, can make them reconsider. In any event, if you are dismissed, your only option is the Employment Tribunal as mentioned. Does this clarify things a bit more for you?

Customer: replied 17 days ago.
mo, not rly, because it all looks like, i am in deep crap, only because of circumstantial evidence...
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
because, for me, it looks like, they have only circumstional evidence, and they try to keep quite english workers. I am polish worker, recently applied for pay ride or promotion, and that came up...
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
I can also claim, that manager from other unit has been taking cocaine, for over a moth, and nothing has been done to it.... Why i am so with no posibilites to claim my side ??? is employment law so strict ???
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
for me it looks like, if they want to get rid of some employee they can do it with no problems, just give circumstational evidence ??
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
is rly english law so faulty ???
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
can u accuse someone of sth with no evidence... ?????
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
just because, you believe sth is wrong ?? that puts all the minorities into bad situation
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
after working for 6 years in tesla, english people get priority with evidence ?????????????????????????????
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
i could accues cell leader of selling cocaine for £700 to manager, with no evidence ??
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
after whicj, manager was absent for over a month...
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
come on, it looks like perfect scam for english....
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
i am sorry for bringing this all up, but i come from polish law background and this just doesnt make sense...
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
rly, thats the way the english law works out ???....

English law is not faulty, but at the same time it appreciates that an employer will not be in the same position as the criminal courts and have the time and resources to carry out a forensically detailed examination to determine someone’s guilt, especially when the stakes are not as high.

 

All I can tell you is how the law works, I am not there to judge if it is right or not…

Customer: replied 17 days ago.
but if there is no strict evidence, of my gulit, how thet can fire me ??? just on beliefe ??
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
it all means, i am srued in no matter how i willl go ??even this was not me ??? they have right to fire me ?? makes no sense...??
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
i can play any card, and still be dimissed ??
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
thank you very much english law looks like, if the emplyer decided to get rid of someone, all he needs to do is proivide, circumstanial evidence ???

the requirements of what the employer must do to dismiss someone are as stated above in the bullet points of my first answer. Yes, they can potentially dismiss without hard evidence, but that is the way employment law works. Justice will not always prevail, sometimes wrong actions will be taken, just as thousands of people have been jailed for crimes they did not commit - it is not fair, no one disputes that, but it can happen. As mentioned, all I can do is provide you with the law, I am not here to judge if it is fair or not

Customer: replied 17 days ago.
thank you for your answear, i still think this is riculus....
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
ridiculus....

I agree, but remember the dismissal has not happened yet and it is not a guarantee either

Customer: replied 17 days ago.
sounbds like, emplyment law work beyond civil law....
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
so if i am polish minority in the populatio9n, it can happen anyway i will plead not gulity ???

employment law is civil law, in fact the requirements I mentioned above are from civil law, from a case in the seventies

Customer: replied 17 days ago.
so how can i defend myself ?? cause from what your saying I am scrued anyway...???

all you can do is answer their questions truthfully and try to find witnesses if they exist but you cannot create evidence that proves your innocence - in the end they have what they have and can make a decision based on that.

 

Customer: replied 17 days ago.
all the witnesess say it couldnt be mine, etc. so it means i am scrued anyway..:( thank you for 6 years of service, you got brake back, we do not need you anymore, we will find sth minor to get you sack... that what its all appear ??
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
thank you very much for english work system then...
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
thank god this country is leaving Eu, always been self centered....
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
and yes, you have faulty law system...
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
which can detetermine someone future based on your predictions...

ok as I said I am not here to judge the system, that is not my place, I am only here to discuss the law, I am afraid there is not much I can do to change it

Customer: replied 17 days ago.
i can understand that. I am just shocked, that you can easily get rid of someone, if you do not like it... where he has ni chance do defence, rly, democratic system...
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
england always have been and still is, self centrered community, trying to get as much form others, and give nothing back...
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
thats how I see it...
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
and i do not agree with that, but then it is only law, and nothing can be done about it...

yes but please remember I am only here to discuss the legal position, not comment on whether it is right or wrong so I cannot get into a discussion about that. Hope you understand

Customer: replied 17 days ago.
yes i do understand that, and please, do not take it personalyy. I am just trying to find out, what my options are, after i will be saked, because for me it is ridiculus... Cell leaders, can take, sell drugs to managers, but i am beinf prescuted for sth i havent done, thats what i do not agree with.
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
just because they are english ?????????
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
it all started after i applied for pay rise, or promotion, and said that one of the managers treat me like a shit...
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
can i seek help in union trades ??
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
because for me, it looks like, i am being get rid of, because of pay rise ans asking for more...
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
i am being gratefull for your advice just cant see the sense in all of it...
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
i know about load s of miss conducts at work, and nothing being done about it, and suddenly after i applied for pay ride, or promotion this camse up...
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
comes up*
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
i am sorry but that sounds suspicious...or racist...
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
but noone wants to hear that.... :(
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
so for me, it sounds, like, you are foreigner, keep your mouth shut, ad you will be employed...
Customer: replied 17 days ago.
or we will find sth for you...

You can get trade union help but you have to be a member and if you are not one yet, you will likely find that they will not help you with this because it is already an ongoing issue (they avoid people just joining them to get help with an already existing issue and then leaving, so they want you to already be a member when the issue comes up).

 

At this stage you are wasting too much time and effort thinking about what MAY happen, whereas you need to be dealing with what is actually happening and that is the disciplinary and any decision after that. Only once the decision is confirmed and assuming it is a dismissal, should you be starting to think more seriously about what to do next and how to challenge that

Customer: replied 12 days ago.
Can i challenge the fact that my company has no drugs and alcohol policy ???

that is not a legal requirement so no, does this clarify?

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