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Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 317
Experience:  Expert
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How is Crypto currency worked out when a husband or wife Is

Customer Question

How is Crypto currency worked out when a husband or wife Is wanting to take half?
If someone invests into anything in the period where the two people are separated, is that also included too?
JA: Where is this? It matters because laws vary by location.
Customer: London
JA: What steps have been taken so far?
Customer: We are separated and both agreed via HMRC that we have been separated for 2 years and we are are happy to proceed with divorce nisi
JA: Is there anything else the Lawyer should know before I connect you? Rest assured that they'll be able to help you.
Customer: No thanks
Submitted: 9 days ago.
Category: Law
Expert:  JeremyT1020 replied 9 days ago.

Good evening and thank you for your question.  I'm a solicitor specialising in divorce, separation and financial matters.  I've recently dealt with cryptocurrency assets so I'd be happy to provide some guidance.  First and foremost, cryptocurrencies acquired during the marriage are marital assets.  Anything acquired following separation is a post-separation asset and might not be included in the matrimonial pot.

Customer: replied 9 days ago.
Hi Jeremy thanks for your response.
I really appreciate it.
So just to clarify...
Let me give a hypothetical example so you're able to give me your best response.
So let's say, My wife and I separated back in May 2019 and I applied for the divorce a few weeks back because it now marks the two year separation date. We have both agreed to do it and it's been agreed and verified on the .gov website.I saw her today and I believe she has Crypto assets that were purchased during the time we were married and also during the time we were separated.
1) Are you saying that all crypto assets that were acquired from May 2019 until today and onwards are not legally split 50/50 when we divorce?2) How would I or the court go about proving assets owned seeing as it's all stored on private wallets or cold storage? Is it possible for these to be hidden?3) Seeing as we just had a conversation about splitting the Crypto and that I wanted to get someone Involved to help me understand it, could she give away the crypto to someone as a gift and then I have no way of being entitled to it due to it being her crypto and her gift to someone for a birthday or something?Thanks
Customer: replied 9 days ago.
Sorry would love the call but £40 is outside my budget right now
Expert:  JeremyT1020 replied 9 days ago.

Hello again and thanks for the additional information.  Don't worry, I'm not offering a call at this time of night.  It's an automatically generated pop up through the site that makes it look like it's the expert who's offered it.  For the record, I tend to only offer calls in the early evening or occasionally at weekends.  Anyway, to answer your questions...

Expert:  JeremyT1020 replied 9 days ago.

You have been separated since 2019 so, technically, anything acquired after that date is a post-separation asset.  Bear in mind that the starting point for any financial division is a 50:50 split of the matrimonial assets (known as the 'yardstick of equality'), that percentage can be adjusted due to numerous factors and is, ultimately, tested for needs (of both parties) and fairness.  There are circumstances when assets have acquired value post-separation and a spouse could claim half of that increase in value, the most obvious being the house.

Expert:  JeremyT1020 replied 9 days ago.

To get the value of the crypto assets, you may need to appoint both an IT professional and/or a forensic accountant.  I'm afraid there's no easy answer and it's entirely possible for some transactions to be hidden if the owner is very sneaky.  If you have any proof that your ex has crypto currencies but she is refusing to reveal their true value, you can invite the court to draw adverse inferences and make calculated assumptions about their value.  That said, the transaction between bank and crypto wallet should show up on bank statements so that's often a start.  Bear in mind that all Bitcoin transactions are public, traceable and permanently stored in the Bitcoin network.

Expert:  JeremyT1020 replied 9 days ago.

If she gave away money and it was traceable, you could potentially claim that she had disposed of matrimonial assets and ask for an 'add-back' from other assets.

Customer: replied 9 days ago.
Wow that is a very informative and detailed response. Thanks so much for this.
Ok, I appreciate your time and help.Just to ask...
So if we take it to court and I suspect she has roughly £2000 in crypto invested over the last time we were married and she admits it's around the same, would it be wise to still ask for someone to have a deeper look or would accepting what she says make most sense. I ask because I don't want to war with her, I am looking for peace, especially for our children's sake...Also, I am not sure that I 100% understand the pre separation part.
Would we have needed to have legally separated for these assets to be not count or does just not living with each other and signing the paper work we just signed also count as two years of separation?
Sorry, just need to clarify if there's a difference in separation.When you said this "Bear in mind that the starting point for any financial division is a 50:50 split of the matrimonial assets (known as the 'yardstick of equality'), that percentage can be adjusted due to numerous factors and is, ultimately, tested for needs (of both parties) and fairness."Are you saying that she could get 60/40 in her favour or I could?One last thing, sorry if I sound like I'm repeating myself, I'm just trying to gain clarity.
If I was to persue a solicitor /lawyer to investigate the crypto investments, would they ask for everything obtained before May 2019 or is that something she would have to object to and state that it was before our agreement of separation.Thanks again
Customer: replied 8 days ago.
Hi, is anyone going to respond please?
Do we not work weekends?
Expert:  JeremyT1020 replied 8 days ago.
I am going to respond. For the record, the vast majority of experts are solicitors who work long hours during weekdays and fit in just answer customers in between our work, family and other personal commitments.
Expert:  JeremyT1020 replied 8 days ago.
In answer to your further questions
Expert:  JeremyT1020 replied 8 days ago.
First part - entirely up to you. Cost will be a big factor and it will take a few months to investigate.
Expert:  JeremyT1020 replied 8 days ago.
Second part - there is no difference if you ate married and then separate and divide up the assets or divorce and divide up the assets. The same rules on dividingbthe assets apply. The only difference is that you will normally ask a court to approve an agreed consent order when you divorce.
Expert:  JeremyT1020 replied 8 days ago.
Third part - you'll have to negotiate if you want 60:40, 70:30, 55:45. Like I said, it depends on various factors.
Expert:  JeremyT1020 replied 8 days ago.
Fourth part - get the lawyer to ask for it as part of the disclosure process. You are both under an obligation to give full and frank disclosure. If you need to go back pre-2019 years, your lawyer will need to find a reason to justify it.
Expert:  JeremyT1020 replied 8 days ago.
Thank you for your question and good luck. Kind regards, J
Customer: replied 8 days ago.
Hi JeremyApologies if I seemed abrupt, I was genuinely asking the question. I didn't realise this wasn't your main job so apologies for that.I appreciate your responses.Will everything you said remain in this chat or does it disappear?Thanks again.
Customer: replied 8 days ago.
Sorry I don't think you understood my second question.Let me try again...You mentioned that assets obtained before we separated will be up for discussion on whether or not they should be split right?
My question is, does it have to be a legal separation to be deemed as an actual separation or does it still count that we didn't live together from May till present.
I ask because I know you can apply to be legally separated too and wanted to know if that's taken into account.Thanks
Reply when you can and enjoy your weekend
Expert:  JeremyT1020 replied 5 days ago.
Good evening. Legal separation is different from 'separation.' A legal separation is asking the court to formally acknowledge you are separated. It's quite rare and people tend to enter into a legal separation for moral or religious reasons.
Expert:  JeremyT1020 replied 5 days ago.
The assets that are part of the matrimonial pot are those that you have obtained during the course of your marriage. They are capable of being divided/split. Sometimes, pre-marital and post-separation assets CAN be considered as matrimonial assets depending on needs and fairness. Pension assets in very long marriages where one party may have acquired a number of years' worth of pension prior to the marriage might be taken into consideration.
Customer: replied 5 days ago.
Good afternoonSo a legal separation is what she would have needed to have done in order for me to not be able to claim post separation assets? But seeing as it was a normal separation I am still entitled to claim?
Expert:  JeremyT1020 replied 4 days ago.
No. In a nutshell, you divide the assets acquired during the marriage. Forget worrying about the difference between separation and legal separation. Sometimes, you MIGHT be able to claim assets acquired prior to the marriage or after you've separated but it varies from case to case.