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Joshua
Joshua, Lawyer
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 29200
Experience:  LL.B (Hons), Higher Prof. Dip. Law & Practice
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Looking for direction to urgently get a court order, UK,

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Looking for direction to urgently get a court order
JA: Where is this? It matters because laws vary by location.
Customer: UK
JA: What steps have been taken so far?
Customer: None
JA: Is there anything else the Lawyer should know before I connect you? Rest assured that they'll be able to help you.
Customer: Yes, it is relating to a bank requesting a court order from me to access my father and step mother joint accounts for a probate case now underway. location 'Bereavement unit'
Hello,

I've been working hard to find a Professional to assist you with your question, but sometimes finding the right Professional can take a little longer than expected.

I wonder whether you're ok with continuing to wait for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will continue my search. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you.

Thank you!
Customer: replied 10 days ago.
I did contact the police last night as the Court Order is relatively urgent. They suggested a solicitor. So obvious when you think about it. NFA required.

Hello and thank you for your question. My name is ***** ***** I will be very pleased to assist you. I'm a practising lawyer in England with over 15 years’ experience. Please be aware that although I will endeavour to reply to you promptly, I am also in full time private practice and so I may not be available to respond immediately and it may also take me a few minutes to prepare a reply. The site will notify you as soon as I respond. I look forward to working with you to answer your question fully.

  1. May I gently confirm if your father and step mother have both passed away please?
  2. If either of them have not, are you able to kindly outline the purpose for which you require access to their account and whether those of them that is still alive consents to your access?
  3. if either of them are still alive, do you hold power of attorney for them?
Customer: replied 10 days ago.
Hi Josh,
Answers to questions are as follows:
1. Yes, both passed away, my father in 2013 ns my step mother (Hilda) in December, 2008.
2. Yep, sure. I will give you the short version (if I can)! I live overseas. My parents lived in N Yorks. My father had to go into long term care as Hilda could not cope with my fathers caring at home. Hilda son, Mick (my step brother), has assumed some role in the lives of them both. He notified me in 2010 whilst in Sydney that my father was undergoing tests (for dementia). He then further advised that my father had been admitted into care.
I returned back to UK in August 2010 to visit my father for the first time in care.
It was on this day that Mick disclosed to me quite openly that he had withdrawn funds from my father's bank account in order to get maximum benefit for my father from the NYCC.He further disclosed that my father had not been taking his current company pension post retirement of £550/m (and perhaps his state pension too). My father had retired in 1991. If now company pension had been taken at all by my father, the pension accumulated could have been as much as £60,000. This is fraud, the victim being the NYCC.
I took this disclosure on board until the death of my step mother in December, 2018. By this time I had returned to the UK (for work) in 2015.Knowing what I did, I immediately took an initial caveat which was allowed on the grant of probate. Then extended the caveat. I was finally granted a permanent caveat by the High Court along the way in December, 2019.
Prior to this, however, I have established that Mick, whilst having an EPA to act as PoA from 2007, it was not registered with the OPG in order for it to be valid to act on behalf of my father and Hilda.I have finally tracked down the bank statements from which the fraudulent element of this issue is the basis of the issue of the caveat - that being that the final spouse's estate value is inaccurate due the fraudulent activity which occurred in 2010 by Mick.
However, HSBC, who have been doing their own investigation on how such money could have been withdrawn from my father's account by someone without the authority to do so on behalf of my father, have now 'blocked' myself obtaining the bank account details of my father to provide evidence of the fraudulent activity.The Courts have have also requested of me as a Litigant in Person, to provider counter evidence why the grant of probate should not be granted. This is my main work at this point (which I am looking for assistance) over and above getting the Court order to gather evidence.i am not getting any financial gain from my actions, as I am just seeking the correct value of the estate (+ or -) and in the course of doing this the NYCC will recover the monies of the fraudulent activity.The HSBC bank accounts are the final pice of the jigsaw needed by me to show evidence of the inaccurrate final spouces' balance due to fraudulent activities of the co-executor, Mick.Neither the account holders are now alive.3. As above, and there is no PoA registered with the OPG for my father or step mother, hence mick had no such authority to remove my fathers funds. This should be clear if I can obtain access only to my fathers account.Stephen.

Thank you for summarising what I can see has been a somewhat involved set of events. Please accept my condolences for your losses.

Could you tell me if either of your parents left a will and if so who was appointed as executor(s) please?

Customer: replied 10 days ago.
Yep, they birth left Wills -
1977 they each made Mirror Wills, nominating myself (representing my side) as the co-executor together with Mick (representing his side). This provided fairness and balance. On the death of any spouse, the Executrix would be the surviving spouse (in this case Hilda). Hilda had elements of dementia at the time of my father's death on 1 April, 2013 and even at the best of times would not have been able to fulfil the role of executrix herself. By default this executrix became Mick (who had no legal authority).
One month after the death of my father, Hilda (or rather her son Mick) decided to change the original Mirror Will by removing myself from the role of co-executor (and therefore the intent of fairness and balance) and replacing me with her second son (Stephen ***** *****) and in doing so making at an all 'step side' executorship. I was in Australia when the change was executed - Hilda now having dementia - but had an inkling that something was not right before I left. Hilda would never have changed her Will.
On 25th May Hilda signed her amended Will.I have copies of the two mirror Wills and that of the final Will of Hilda which is currently under indefinate probate primarily based on the value of the Estate to be administered.You are definately asking all the key questions - that's good.
I have two tasks to undertake at the moment
1. Get the said bank accounts of my father and step mother from HSBC re the poof of fraud
2. Provide my defence to the release of probate under Part 57 of the administration Act.I have been on this legal journy since December, 2018 when Hilda died and now risk the possibility of it collapsing. I need these bank statements to substantiate my case ofthe value of the estate and also fraud against NYCC. NYCC are the victims here and secondary is the correct value of the Estate.
The NY police are on board with this, the NYCC more luke warm. The NYCC must make the claim to the police themselves. This is done by getting the bank statements to prove the removal of funds and therefore the inaccuracies of the final value of the Estate after NYCC have been compensated.Stephen.
Customer: replied 10 days ago.
In the long run looking for probate solicitor (what is your calling?), in the short term looking for obtaining the bank statements to prove the removal of the fraudulent funds and present to NYCC to act together with police.

thank you. Based upon what you have said, you should not need a court order to obtain information from HSBC as you can direct their bereavement department to s1 Administration of Estates Act which transfers control of all of your respective parents assets and rights to the executors. in other words, this provision gives you all of the rights that your parents enjoyed in relation to obtaining information when they were alive. This provision is not subject to a grant of probate been obtained and therefore the caveat that has been entered does not have any bearing or restraint upon your right to obtain information. The above is a statutory right not subject to interpretation. it would only be affected by a court injunction ordering the bank not to provide such information which I would assume has not been made.

accordingly, notwithstanding the above, the bank is in no position to refuse to provide you with information and you can remind the bank of your statutory rights above to obtain such information and the refusal to provide information to you would amount to a breach of contract on the part of the bank and will give rise to a complaint on your part and claim for damages (either to compensate you for the additional time it takes to obtain information which you are lawfully able to obtain and/or any losses caused to the estate for example if it delays administration). If necessary, this complaint ( for which they have eight weeks to respond) can be escalated to the financial ombudsman for an independent termination so there is no need to obtain a court order even if they refuse to comply though usually quoting chapter and verse will unblock any road blocks.

if however you prefer to go to court then you can make an application for an order using form N244 for which there is a fee of £255

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-n244-application-notice

Customer: replied 10 days ago.
WOW - that is very interesting and worth a gold star! The bank has requested over and above of a Court Order also that the current co-executors Messers Stephen and ***** ***** provide authority for the release of these statements. i have requested many times of their solicitors (Crombie Wilkinson) for such blessing but have never heard from anything back. I have another such request in the pipeline, and have stated that 'if i do not hear from you before midday today then I will have to assume that you will not be providing such assistance (they obviously do not want to incriminate themselves by making it easy. I will look at form N244. I will first go the Administration of Estates Act and if I get nowhere, the N244 route.This is the best answer I have ever had.from this site! Actual facts to assist me.Do you specifically deal in probate/Will and contentious probate as a profession. My requirement of a solicitor to assist me in this Defence witness paper is up for grabs. my email is***@******.***.
Many thanks.
Stephen.

I'm glad the above is of some assistance. I used to deal practice in contentious probate - not so much these days but try to generally keep my knowledge up in the area.

Joshua, Lawyer
Category: Law
Satisfied Customers: 29200
Experience: LL.B (Hons), Higher Prof. Dip. Law & Practice
Joshua and 3 other Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 10 days ago.
interested in providing advice on this matter?

regrettably, this site is limited to provision of legal information rather than representation and I am not permitted to accept client referrals from customers of this site. In any event you would be better to consider a solicitor or barrister that still actively practices in contentious probate matters but I am grateful that you would consider the request

Customer: replied 10 days ago.
no worries

I wish you all the best with your claim