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Hello my name is ***** ***** I will help you with this.
Just to be clear, no tenancy agreement was ever signed?
Hi, thanks. Ok, there was never a tenancy agreement signed UNTIL Dec 2012, when after demanding one for years (and years prior to my arrival in the house as well), he produced a 2 page agreement valid for 1 year (until Dec 2013) which he clearly just downloaded off the Internet from somewhere. I read it and signed it. There was nothing in the there that was untoward, it was extremely basic. I was the only one who signed it. It was only signed to agree the rent amount and ensure it would not go up for the next year.
Did anyone else sign it?
When was it fixed period until?
No no one else signed it. It was fixed until Dec 2013.
OK and remind mw when you left?
What did it say about termination?
Sure. I left in Oct 1st 2013.
I'm pretty sure it didn't say anything, however, and I know this sounds odd but knowing the kind of person he is/was, I don't even think he remembers that we signed an agreement.
Ok - so you are liable until Dec 13 but thats it
The contract was for 2 months more so you are only liable until then
He isn't really persuing anything in the contract and hasn't even mentioned it, he is more focussed on this money that he says I didn't pay him.
But yes, technically I am liable until Dec 2013
Yes but that is it. 2 months, nothing more.
As for historic as long as you can show payments that is fine, via bank
Yes but the payments were in cash, and there were never any receipts
What he is arguing for isn't the 2 months past the contract termination, but for the 10 months previous
He would have to prove you had not paid.
From Jan 2013 - Oct 2013 he is saying that he didn't receive the rent.
If they were historically paid by cash then it seems strange only a year later he is chasing this.
If he didnt get the rent then I am sure he could have instructed bailiffs to take possession or issued Court proceedings
This is a lot of money so very strange he just left it until now
Yes it was historically paid by cash, then a brief period with bank transfer that didn't work, then reverting to cash payments with no receipts.
OK - but then again as soon as you are a month late he can get bailiffs to reposses
So again seems strange he did not
I guess the crux is, at this late a date for such a large amount (as you point out), can it be taken to court to prove cash payments without a receipt? Can bank statements be requested as proof of payment (even though they only prove a withdrawal)?
He would have to prove payments were not made.
I guess you already said he would have to prove that I had NOT paid, rather than me prove that I had. Even though it is practically impossible for either of us to do that.
Indeed. A Judge would take a view, which is the more likely version
As I have said its unlikely to would wait a year before doing anything
Normally a Landlord would take action as soon as you are a month late.
I wouldn't be thinking about it but for the fact that I got married that year and we got a lot of cash gifts from family, some of that cash was used to pay rent...just because I already had the cash there. So the statements wouldnt reflect a withdrawal for that month....if you see what I mean
Indeed. So it would be more likely you had paid
Well yeah, normally a landlord would be right on the ball with missed payments. This guy has waited almost a year to chase for it, which is what makes me think he's just cooked up this plan knowing no one has any receipts. Maybe a judge believes him and maybe he doesn't.
Can I clarify anything for you about this today please?
I'm not 100% sure how this works or if I have any more time to add details at a later date (just to put mind at ease)...
Not that there's anything important to add. Just that I am at work and rushing a bit.
Sure. If you have finished for the moment you can rate my answer. The button will be at the bottom of the screen
If you want to ask me more questions later you can start the question: FOR ALEX W - I can then pick it up
If you need more help from me now, please click reply
Ah ok, thanks. I'll rate below. I've been over the whole thing quite a bit in my head over the last year to try to figure out if it is more likely that he has misplaced ten thousand pounds in cash, or if he is just trying it on. He has had a court case with tenants on a different floor of the building, and lost, he had to pay all their court fees as well.
Indeed. I think he is just trying it on,
And I only moved a street away so sooner or later I will run into him in the street
You can show payments went out, ie cash withdraws around that time for a similar amount
That is enough
Nice to know I have some legal confidence now, thanks.
Ok I'll post back anything I think of.
Happy to help.
Hi again, just going over my bank statements, there aren't a lot of withdrawals on there. I know some of it was paid from wedding gift cash like I said, and some was from my then fiance. There are some transfers to prepaid credit cards on there too.
But this is like 2 years ago nearly now and I have no idea what was withdrawn when. Sometimes I know he used to come to collect whatever cash we had at the time, and then would come back for the rest at a later date. So that's not helpful either.
This landlord even gave me a reference for my new place. Why would he vouch for me if he thought I'd taken ten thousand pounds from him?
Do you think I need to prove through my bank statements that this cash was even withdrawn? Or am I literally just at the mercy of a judge's opinion on who's story is more likely?
Yes I thought it might be.
The thing is. If I was actually going to steal his money, I mean if I had planned to just say the cash had been paid (basically bluffing each and every month for nearly a year, whilst continuing to live there) and that he had just forgotten the arrangement, all I would need to do really is make sure I withdrew the cash each and every month so that it would appear on my statement. I could stick it under my bed or whatever. Then that would be there in black and white. But reality isn't like that so it doesn't appear like that.
Hi again, a bit of an update on this situation. My ex landlord has been in touch with my friend (who is still his tenant at the same place), and issued the following ultimatum: "let's meet and discuss this money or I will take it to court and I have a very good lawyer and will make you pay the costs of the case".
So what that says to me is he is trying to extort money out of me under threat of taking the case to court.
I have no proof that I paid him his rent (like I said before, in cash and no receipts), and he has no proof that I didn't.
He is doing it through my friend because he doesn't know where I live.
Is there anything further you think I should do like contact citizen's advice or hire a lawyer? Or is that just money wasted because of a crazy threat of court action?