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John
John, Solicitor
Category: Traffic Law
Satisfied Customers: 1939
Experience:  10 years legal experience
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I have a question in regard to parking on ASDA's private

Customer Question

I have a question in regard to parking on ASDA's private land disable bay parking . I did display my Blue badge which fall on the floor I came back withing 4 minutes to the car and I already had a PRIVACY NOTIVE STATING DATE AND THAT I CAN VIEW ALL ON WEBSITE. I did challenge to VCS.ltd as being unfair and unreasonable also as I learn that Blue Badges does not apply on private land...also there should be a 'grace period' of 5-10 minutes before writing a ticket. also I learn from resolver that 'soft ticketing' is forbiden under BPA's code of practice... after writing challenge to VCS ltd my challenge was refused...also I do have a letter from an Asda Manager confirming that I did have a disable Badge which fall off ..
JA: Because traffic laws vary from place to place, can you tell me where this is?
Customer: Then VCS ltd told me to forward my challenegt to theIAS.org
JA: Do you need to appear in court?
Customer: which I did and they gave me 2 possibilities submit response or refer to arbitration
JA: Is there anything else the Lawyer should know before I connect you? Rest assured that they'll be able to help you.
Customer: \i don't think I need to go to court
Submitted: 22 days ago.
Category: Traffic Law
Expert:  John replied 22 days ago.

Hello, how are you? Welcome to JustAnswer. My name is***** am a solicitor and I will be assisting you today. Please note there may be delays in responding as I am away helping other customers but I will get back to you as soon as I can.  I may also need to ask you some clarifying questions to determine the legal position.

Expert:  John replied 22 days ago.

Thank you for your message, I appreciate it is important to you. Vehicle Control Services Limited (VCS Ltd) are members of the British parking association. The normal process is to send your appeal online or by email at day 25 of receiving the ticket. You can also put in a complaint to the landowner about the charges. This can sometimes work, therefore if the ASDA manage has confirmed you had a disabled badge, you should ask him to assist you in telling the parking company to write off the fine, as they would have employed them in the first place.

If the above is rejected you’ll need to appeal to POPLA which is the independent appeals service. You should receive a POPLA verification code with their letter of rejection. The appeal to POPLA must be done within 28 days of receiving any rejection letter.

The important thing is not to be intimidated by any letters received and threats to send it to debt collectors. It is normal to receive these type of intimidating letters so expect them. Their function is to scare you into paying. You should be successful at the POPLA stage.

They have no legal basis to charge you the excess amount as they are merely invoices as opposed to fines. Normally with these private companies, they do have a claim for breach of contract but only to recover monies they have lost and not for excessive amounts.

If all your appeals are rejected, they may issue court proceedings, this is the only way for them to recover the funds. It is unlikely they will as it isn’t cost effective for them to do so, as cost of court proceedings is more than what they can recover but some companies do issue and if this is the case, then you’ll need to ensure you defend the matter.

Given the circumstances you are likely to be successful if they do issue and they would have wasted their time. These claims are defendable with a high success rate. Worse case (and unlikely) scenario is they win at court, and in that event you’ll just be ordered to pay the original charge plus court fees which is about £25. If paid within 28 days it doesn’t appear on your credit file.

Expert:  John replied 22 days ago.

I hope this helps. Thank you again for visiting JustAnswer, please let me know if you need me to clarify anything or if you have any additional questions. I am happy to help.

Expert:  John replied 22 days ago.

Hello, just following up on this to ensure you're satisfied with what you need to do. Please let me know if you need me to clarify anything or if you have any additional questions. I am happy to help. All the best, John

Customer: replied 22 days ago.
Thank you for reply ... to make it clear I did challenge PCN to VCS ltd they refused to cancel... then I have a written and signed letter from Asda Manager confirming that I did have a BBadge, which fell off... then VCS ltd replied that I need to challenge to www.theIAS.org, which I did I wrote 7 pager + Letter from Asda Manager also I stated in my challenge that BBadges of not apply on Private land but Equality Act 2010 does, but VCS stated that EA2010 says that the providers must make a 'reasonable adjustments' to remove barriers which may discriminate against disable people, in this case incl. larger disable parking spaces & amenities and NOT TO EXTEND TO EXEMPTING DISABLED MOTORISTS FROM THE REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY THEY BLUE BADGES.
I did park at 16.01 then at 16.04 came back to my car and already had a PRIVACY NOTICE behind the wiper, the warden took 4 minutes to 1st write a privacy notice then took 8 pictures, when I came back within 4 minutes of leaving car he was nowhere to be found so I could show him a BB, I don't use android phones so couldn't make a photo. I went back to show Asda Manager Badge and a Ticket which I| got within 4 minutes of parking there
I did ask as is requested 'grace period' for council and private land ... VCS replied that is not applicable here as means 10 minutes period at the end of permitted period parking, eventhough they do have a ANPR cameras he could easily check by phone or his computerises tablet if he had one. Also vsc stated that 10 min extra would mean extra unadvertised 10 min. would be allowed for motorist to remove their car from the site beyond the advertised max. stayas a form of leeway. Also VCS stated the grace period has NO RELEVANCE TO THE MOTORIST DISPLAY OF A BLUE BADGE.
I did see on my dash camera guy in black fleece giving me Privace notice then making pictures and he disappeared, didn't eve bother to check all other cars, just approached mine. Also the witness who was sitting in the car opposite mine confirm that.
vcs stated that patrol officer use HHT Hand Held Terminal - which he didn't use as I did view the video footage. which got overwritten since then. No formal PCN is affixed to the vehicle instead of notices issue by post - they stated this practice is in line with the process & procedures as per site management using ANPR technology, he just stated that they use HHT technology to give ticket - so which one is it?Also, in Resolver I read that 'soft ticketing' is now FORBIDDEN UNDER BPA's CODE OF PRACTICE.
Soft ticketing is where a parking fine puts a notice on a vehicle that says to check online or by phone to see if I been ticketed.
I do believe that they broke rules, is that correct what resolver is stating?
Moreover I came back within 4 minutes to the car, the BB fell off due to a wind or a someone accidentally nudging the car as they walked by it could b=have been person who bouncing up & down with malice aforethought.The |VCS stated the photo's supplied show the signs can be observed at the entrance & throughout the car park.
There is one ANPR CAMERA AND 2 cameras which were at the left rear of my car they wouldn't be able to see dashboard. Also if they do have cameras why not checking the time of my entrance and waiting 'grace period' before writing notice?
Customer: replied 22 days ago.
I did challenge to VCS ltd then I was told to forward challenge to www.theias.org NOT POPLA.
I did send challenge to theias.org then they send me a letter to choose to submit my response or straight to ARBITRATION, not sure which one is better for me?
Customer: replied 22 days ago.
should VCS ltd allow any 'grace period' before giving Notice... is giving Notice - breaking the rules under BPA's?
is there any rules for BB using a private car park's?
Expert:  John replied 22 days ago.

Hello, thank you for the extra information. Vehicle Control Services Ltd are members of both schemes i.e. the International Parking Community (IPC) and the British Parking Association (BPA). This is not rare. With members of the IPC the appeals go through the IAS and with BPA members it is through POPLA.

Your particular case is proceeding through the IAS so we will focus on that. It is normally advised not to appeal to the IAS which is widely considered a kangaroo court, and almost certainly would be rejected, despite what you say to them and will give them new impetus to pursue you even stronger and they might be buoyed by an IAS 'win' under their belt to brandish in case they issued.

However, this should not deter you if you have. From the information you have provided, there is sufficient evidence to dispute the charges. The main issue you are facing now is, they either accept what you are telling them, or if they do not and you refuse to pay the fine, they will need to issue court proceedings. As mentioned in my previous response, this is the only way for them to get money from you and you should expect them to be unreasonable, even aggressive in their pursuit of the fine.

The 10-minute grace period would not apply to your situation as it is a private car park which carries its own enforcement. The grace period only applies to regulated on-street parking bays or in a car park run by the council, so I would not focus on this aspect.

The truth of the matter is, as I anticipate it to be is all your appeals will be rejected and your concerns will fall on deaf ears. It is not right, but this is how they operate. The options will effectively be, to either pay the fine to conclude matters, or fight it....subject to them issuing court proceedings. You may try arbitration as that is quicker and more swifter than court proceedings but you essentially require either that or court to determine matters as opposed to any appeals than go through the IAS.

I appreciate it is frustrating but as mentioned, if it got to court, especially given the evidence you have to show the fine was unwarranted then you have good prospects to defend the matter.

I hope this helps.

Expert:  John replied 22 days ago.

I hope this helps. Thank you again for visiting JustAnswer, please let me know if you need me to clarify anything or if you have any additional questions. I am happy to help.

Customer: replied 21 days ago.
why my case was not referred to POPLA but IAS?... can I request from my side that I would like to challenge via POPLA or no? also if I choose (as my deadline is today) Arbitration does it mean will be someone from IAS? or totally independent person?. will after Arbitration case will go to court or it will finish?
If I choose just to submit my response (not arbitration) will my case after that will go to court or will still be going to Arbitration after submitting my respond.
As you stated:
''Vehicle Control Services Ltd are members of both schemes i.e. the International Parking Community (IPC) and the British Parking Association (BPA). This is not rare. With members of the IPC the appeals go through the IAS and with BPA members it is through POPLA.''
If VCS Ltd is a member of both why they didn't choose POPLA also is POPLA better then IPC? do you think would be better for me to challenge this via RESOLVER? then know more rules and regulations then I do.
also as VCS is member of both can I CHOOSE TO WHOM I LIKE TO MAKE challenge?
I did request from VCS LTD to send me forms to challenge by post but they just ignored my request and didn't send me details/information nor forms.
does IPC & BPA got the same CODE OF PRACTICE?
I am sure that 10 min grace period is requested on private land too but they stating that I didn't display BB & didn't have a ticket which run out or time so they didn't know what time I park there, when they do have a ANPR.
Expert:  John replied 21 days ago.

Hello, I will try and answer your questions in order.

It goes with the scheme they operate with. In your case, it is IAS. Arbitration is similar to court where a decision is binding, it will be someone independent. The decision is final. If you submit a response first before arbitration, it may still proceed to arbitration after. Resolver are independent, I am unsure of their success rate that will be your decision. You cannot choose which scheme to proceed with you are already proceeding via IAS. The same code of practice applies to both appeal services, yes. I have provided my advice on grace periods, it will be your decision whether to believe it or not.

I hope this helps, I cannot add any further to what I have written above, but  please let me know if you need me to clarify anything or if you have any additional questions. I am happy to help. All the best, John.