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Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: Traffic Law
Satisfied Customers: 82110
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice.
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I need help with a pcn, Birmingham and no, no, The offence

Customer Question

Hi i need help with a pcn
JA: What location was this in? And have you consulted a local lawyer?
Customer: Birmingham and no
JA: Was a citation issued? Was a court date set?
Customer: no
JA: Is there anything else the Lawyer should know before I connect you? Rest assured that they'll be able to help you.
Customer: The offence was on the 20th June 2022 and the notice of issue was the 12th July 2022
Submitted: 10 days ago.
Category: Traffic Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 10 days ago.
Hi, welcome to JustAnswer. My name is*****’m a barrister with 12 years of experience and I am happy to help with your question today.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 10 days ago.

Thank you for the question. It is my pleasure to assist you with this today. Please bear with me as I will be online and off-line from time to time and therefore, may be delayed getting back to you. Sometimes I will get back to you very quickly, other times it's going to be longer and possibly hours or overnight Please bear in mind that it takes me time to type answers and I also have clients and sometimes have to attend court so I may not get back to you immediately.

Customer: replied 10 days ago.
Hi Jo
Expert:  Jo C. replied 10 days ago.

Who is the issuer please?

Customer: replied 10 days ago.
no problem
Customer: replied 10 days ago.
Group Nexus
Expert:  Jo C. replied 10 days ago.

Are you asking if you are liable?

Customer: replied 10 days ago.
i want to find out if i am liable, i never left the vehicle i pulled into the retail park to take a phone call, i didnt exit my vehicle
Customer: replied 10 days ago.
also the offence was on the 20th June, but the notice wasnt issued until 12th July, i always thought they only had 14 days to issue it
Expert:  Jo C. replied 10 days ago.

Thank you.

You can obviously appeal but bear in mind the answer below. Do bear in mind though that if you get a large number of fines the claim against you improves.

As to the identity of the driver. This used to be the way in which private land fine claims fell. They had to identify the driver. Unfortunately the protection of freedoms act came into force in 2012 which creates a presumption that the registered keeper is the liable person if he does not name the driver within a specified period of time . To be honest there were cases even before that the did a similar thing

This is a private land fine. There is a good of nonsense on the internet about private land fines. The truth is that they always did have a perfectly valid claim in breach of contract against those who do not pay or park at variance with their terms and conditions. The issue was that it was not very cost effective for them to sue. It still is not.

They used to sue almost nobody but they are becoming more aggressive now largely because they have lost control of the industry and can only regain it by suing those who don't pay. The chances that they will sue remain very low though so the risk is not great.

They have been emboldened by the case of Beavis which you can view here

Expert:  Jo C. replied 10 days ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFIH1Vwu1DM

Although all that really does is confirm that £85 is not excessive.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 10 days ago.

If you were entitled to park there then you could always argue that they suffered no loss even if they do sue.

If they do sue, you can plead your case and may well win. If you don't win then you will only be liable for the sum of the fine plus about £25 in court costs and £55 in fixed solicitors costs. If you pay it off within 28 days of judgment then it will not show on your credit file.

They do have an appeal option called POPLA. I have never heard of much success from them although apparently they do uphold many appeals. Their decision does not determine whether you will pay anyway. The order of the court does.

You do have the option of putting them to proof on the adequacy of signs though. That may well succeed.

Alternatively, you can offer them £10 in full and final settlement. You need to make this offer in writing heading “without prejudice”. Mark the cheque “full and final settlement” and take a photograph of both sides of it. If they cash it then there is a pretty overwhelming argument that settles the claim.

You could appeal to POPLA to use their discretionary grounds to cancel though.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 10 days ago.

Can I clarify anything for you?

Hopefully, I have answered your query in a way that is simple and easy to understand. If anything remains unclear, I will be more than happy to clarify it for you. In the meantime, thank you once again for using our services.

Jo

Customer: replied 10 days ago.
Sorry, that does help, but im still not sure if the parking fine is viable if i didnt actually exit my vehicle?
and also you didnt answer as to whether after 14 days without notice does this invalidate the pcn?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 10 days ago.

Oh I see.

Yes, that would offend.

There is caselaw on what constitutes parking and it just means bringing the car to rest.  You don't have to leave the vehicle or even turn your ignition off.

Customer: replied 10 days ago.
Thanks Jo, that clears that bit up, i just need to know on the notice period as it took them 22 days to issue the pcn?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 10 days ago.

The protection of freedoms act does refer to 14 days if issued by CCTV but it isn't a legal guillotine as it would be with a NIP.

Its only really relevant when the identity of the driver is disputed anyway.

Customer: replied 10 days ago.
Perfect Jo, would your best advice be to just pay the fine? and argue later or dispute before paying?
Expert:  Jo C. replied 10 days ago.

If you are fighting this, do it before paying not after.

paying will close the claim.

Customer: replied 10 days ago.
Thanks Jo
Expert:  Jo C. replied 10 days ago.

It was my pleasure to assist you. Please come back if anything else crops up and needs clarification.

Thank you for trusting Just Answer, and of course me, with your legal problem.

If you would like to reconnect with me at a later date, simply add me as a favourite expert and you can then tag me in a question by typing @JoC

Thanks again,